Cour Di Bue

[Douglas14]

I'm contemplating growing this variety. I've seen different seed companies show what looks to be different tomatoes. One pictures them heart shaped....tapering at the bottom, while another source shows them tapered near the stem, and widening at the bottom. Are there two versions of it, and if so, which do you prefer?

[Tania]

I hear you...

I was intrigued by the picture that showed this tomato tapered near the stem and widening at the bottom, so I bought the seeds. The company was 'Harvest Moon' which is no longer in business.

Guess what? Grew them in 2005, and they appeared to be 'regular' heart-shaped, tapering at the bottom. Huh!!

Where did you see the other picture? Just curious.

Tania

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Douglas14

I'm contemplating growing this variety. I've seen different seed companies show what looks to be different tomatoes. One pictures them heart shaped....tapering at the bottom, while another source shows them tapered near the stem, and widening at the bottom. Are there two versions of it, and if so, which do you prefer?

Douglas, several years ago someone brought to me seeds she had gotten in Italy, in a commercial pack, and I grew them out and they were red heart shaped, no doubt about it.

But in comparison with all the great red heart shaped varieties I've grown they aren't near the top of the list based on taste and fruit production.

The names are what gets me, as in Cuor di Bue ( Heart of the Bull) if from Italy and Cuore de Toro ( Heart of the Bull) if from Spain.

Meaning, it's a general term and one could include the various Heart of the Bull ( in English) varieties as well, that come in either red or pink.

Confusing to many, but I don't see any of them as specific varieties, just generic red or pink heart shaped varieties from the Mediterranean area.

[rnewste]

...and yet, another spelling (and translation - "Oxheart in Italian") for this variety:



found them in this catalog:



Ray

[carolyn137]

I just got my Territorial catalog today and didn't take time to read it b'c Johnny's also came today as did my tennis magazine and they got first priority, and I had a quota of seeds to pack for my seed offer.

But what the heck is a bottom HEAVY shape? Yes, I see the picture but heavy at the bottom doesn't quite fit with an oxheart ( I prefer to call it them heart shaped) shape in my view.

And I don't remember any pouch-like bottom heavy shape, not that there wasn't one, perhaps, but I think I would have remembered it if it was something unusual.

Oh well.

[rnewste]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

But what the heck is a bottom HEAVY shape? Yes, I see the picture but heavy at the bottom doesn't quite fit with an oxheart ( I prefer to call it them heart shaped) shape in my view.

Guess it is a drop-out from the Jenny Craig program. Maybe it should be called an "Oprah".

Ray

[Tania]

Here is another 'Coeur de Boeuf' with the 'bottom-heavy' shape - you have to scroll down to see it:

http://www.oakleaf-european.co.uk/lists/italian.htm

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tania

Here is another 'Coeur de Boeuf' with the 'bottom-heavy' shape - you have to scroll down to see it:

http://www.oakleaf-european.co.uk/lists/italian.htm

So maybe mine were bottom heavy as well? It's awfully hard for me to remember what they looked like when I grew them from that seed pack so many years ago but I know they didn't look like what's shown

Take a look at the Italian/Spanish varieties that are shown in the Johnny's catalog and tell me they don't look like what's shown here.

BUT, I just reread the descriptions on those who list the various Heart of's, in different languages, and all say oxheart shaped, even Curtis Choplin one of the most respected older SSE members and he got his seeds in a Garden Store in Italy in 1984 and he lists his as pink and oxheart shaped. And he knows an oxheart.

Maybe I'm the odd one out here but I look at the pictures shown in this thread and call such a fruit shape that's shown as a large plum.

Or should we call it an upside down oxheart?

I truly believe that the fruits I saw on the plants that came from seeds purchased in Italy in the early 90's were true oxhearts, just as Curtis' ones were just a few years earlier.

In Tania's link do note that they are all sitting in a commercial looking box. And then please do look at your Johnny's catalog at the pictures of the same shaped fruits featured as coming from Italy/Spain and to be eaten at less than full ripe.

Remarkedly similar say I, and not called oxhearts as I recall.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

So maybe mine were bottom heavy as well? It's awfully hard for me to remember what they looked like when I grew them from that seed pack so many years ago but I know they didn't look like what's shown

Take a look at the Italian/Spanish varieties that are shown in the Johnny's catalog and tell me they don't look like what's shown here.

BUT, I just reread the descriptions on those who list the various Heart of's, in different languages, and all say oxheart shaped, even Curtis Choplin one of the most respected older SSE members and he got his seeds in a Garden Store in Italy in 1984 and he lists his as pink and oxheart shaped. And he knows an oxheart.

Maybe I'm the odd one out here but I look at the pictures shown in this thread and call such a fruit shape that's shown as a large plum.

Or should we call it an upside down oxheart?

I truly believe that the fruits I saw on the plants that came from seeds purchased in Italy in the early 90's were true oxhearts, just as Curtis' ones were just a few years earlier.

In Tania's link do note that they are all sitting in a commercial looking box. And then please do look at your Johnny's catalog at the pictures of the same shaped fruits featured as coming from Italy/Spain and to be eaten at less than full ripe.

Remarkedly similar say I, and not called oxhearts as I recall.

Carolyn,

I think the 'bottom-heavy' 'Cuor di Bue' or whatever is a 'commercial' version of an Oxheart tomato.
Perhaps somebody in the marketing dept. out there did not know what Oxheart tomato should really look like?

On a serious note, I have a variety called 'Coeur de Boeuf Albenga' (a.k.a. Liguria), which is listed at Ventmarin (http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tom...ates_cl-cz.htm), unfortinately no picture there. It has this pear-shaped or 'bottom-heavy' shape.



here is the picture of the same from Angelo Dorny, who sent me the seeds:


It is a typical paste type tomato, nothing to write home about. But certainly looks cute. Note the use of 'Coeur de Boeuf' in the name.

Tania

[carolyn137]

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/p...=658&item=2766

Tania, take a look at this one simply called piriform at Johnny's, which means pear shaped, note the word Liguria, note that it's not said it's an oxheart.

I think someone in Italy has started spreading this one far and wide as at Territorial Seeds, as at Johnny's and who knows where else.

But it sure as heck is NOT Cuor di Bue, or any variation on the spelling of that variety from either Italy or Spain.

And that goes for all the ones named just Bull's Heart in English and even for the new one I got from Andrey called Serdste Buivola, a pink heart which he translated as Heart of the Buffalo and it's listed in my seed offer.

[velikipop]

Both of these companies carry what looks like the same tomato and both call it Ox Heart. The first is from Serbia and the second from Italy. The Italian seeds are available in Canada and I have a packet of their Cuor di Bue which is pictured in the middle of the bottom row of the tomato (Pomadore)section. To get to the tomatoes click catalogi and the icon at the bottom Avanti (forward)

It would be really nice to clear up much of the confusion regarding the differences between a Bull's Heart and an Ox Heart. Not to mention all of the other heart varieties that appear to be the same but carry different names.

http://www.superior-seeds.co.yu/supe...vsko_srce.html


http://www.larosaemanuele.com/pages.htm

[Wi-sunflower]

Those "bottom" heavy fruits look like the Japanese Black Trifele, tho maybe a bit larger. The catalogs are calling the Trifele "pear" shaped, as in a Bartlet pear.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

Those "bottom" heavy fruits look like the Japanese Black Trifele, tho maybe a bit larger. The catalogs are calling the Trifele "pear" shaped, as in a Bartlet pear.

Yes, I could have called them pear shaped as well, but sometimes it's a fine line between pear shaped and plum shaped, depending on the specific variety, and sometimes I've called something bomb shaped and sometimes, as with one of my new ones, torpedo shaped, and here I really am talking about tomatoes in case some of you think I might be describing human body shapes.

[natural]

The Cuor di bue that I grew came from Bill at www.GrowItalian.com. It is a "normal" heart shape. I believe the source is Franchi. There is a photo of it on his website.

I rated it as average flavor. If you want something REALLY great, try the Italian Red Pear from Franchi. That is a wonderful italian tomato!

Bill

[habitat_gardener]

I got a plant labeled Cuor di Bue at a local plant exchange this spring, and it's been producing bottom-heavy fruits that look like the variety called Piriform. The ones I ate today had a terrific flavor.