Brief example of how "meaningless" DTM info can be

[nctomatoman]

The good news - we've picked ripe fruit from three plants - Mexico Midget, Sungold and Galina. Days to first pick for each - Galina, 37 days, Sungold and Mexico Midget, 38 days.

In 2008, the days to Mexico Midget and Sungold were 58 and 44 days, respectively. In 2007, 51 days and 50 days. In 2006, 41 days and 45 days.

So for the last four years, Sungold first came in at day 38, 44, 50 and 45; Mexico Midget at day 38, 58, 51 and 41.

Johnny's lists Sungold as ripening in 57 days. The SSE catalog has Mexico Midget as ripening in 60-70 days. Tomatofest has Galina at 75 days.

Just wanted to share an interesting example of how DTM info is really pretty useless except in relative terms (even then...) - and is completely overwhelmed with more pertinent information, such as the size of the transplant, whether you pull off all early blossoms, location (sun level), fertility, weather that season.

[Blueaussi]

I know some people think "days to maturity" is carved in stone, but isn't it just an average anyway?

[BigdaddyJ]

I have noticed the same thing and use the DTM only as a loose guide.

[ContainerTed]

The more people put a number on DTM, the more I tend to agree with what Sandhill puts on their seeds - Early, Mid, and Late. It seems to me that temperature, direct sunlight, and growing medium all can affect DTM and will do it differently each year.

So, I like the Early, Mid, and Late for, like BigdaddyJ says, rough planning.

Ted

[nctomatoman]

Even given that, Ted - look at my results - Galina, at 75 days (according to one source, anyway), would probably be described as mid...but for me this year it is certainly what I would call early!

I think experienced tomato growers understand this, but newbies to gardening could get quite surprised when their prized tomato plants miss expectations by weeks!

[BigdaddyJ]

Just came in from the garden and found my first ripening tomato of the season, a Big Beef (70 DTM Johnny's) , about two days away from full ripe. It beat Sun Gold (57 DTM Johnny's) and 4th. of July (44 DTM Burpee) by the way. So, a 70 Day job beats a 57 and a 44 ...

70 minus 44, that's 26 days difference. And another great thing about tomato growing, it could be reversed next year...!

[ContainerTed]

Craig, I DO agree on the part about confusing new tomato growers. I'm having my coffee right now and then it's garden time. This afternoon I'll post my early DTM data here on this thread. I've harvested from about two-thirds of my varieties already. I've been very meticulous about this year's data from seeds to harvest. It should show similar results to what you and BigdaddyJ are getting, but we'll see what's there.

Ted

[TZ-OH6]

Craig, are your early plants starting full production that early? I noticed last year, when I actually kept records, that the plants that produced uncharacteristically early fruits (e.g Carbon at 56 days) then went on hold and the rest of the first truss ripened near to the DTM date.


My problem is that the "early varieties" are never early. They tend to set flowers slightly behind the others so I get ripe fruits at the same time alot of other things are ripening. So I'm wondering if they do better under cooler conditions that might hold back other varieties. Here, our last frost is generally surrounded by warm weather so once in the ground, tomatoes are running full tilt boogie. When I lived on Long Island we had a lingering cold spring.

[kterlep]

I have been eating sungold, black cherry, and Super Sweet 100 for a week. had a teeny bright red fruit on a Sub-Arctic plenty runt which only started fruiting 2 weeks ago (or so I thought), all the rest are green, I wonder if it was a mutant, but I ate it anyway.

And, I just noticed yesterday that the red sausage are starting to break (the first non-cherry).

I have a big old brandywine, and a bunch of German Johnson pink and a Big Rainbow, I doubt they will be turning any time soon, but they are BEAUTIFUL!!!

[ContainerTed]

Here's a few of the early toms I'm growing this year and a few mid types thrown in.

This shows the average published DTM and what I've seen this year.

Azoychka .....................75........... 69
Baby Beefsteak............. 75........... 76
Belyi Naliv.................... 60........... 58
Black & Red Boar........... 80........... 68
Brandy Boy.................. 75............ 72
Cherokee Chocolate...... 80............ 69
Cherokee Gold.............. 85............ 72
Spudakee.................... 80............ 72
Dr. Carolyn.................. 75............ 73
Dwarf Champion............ 80........... 69
Galinas........................ 75........... 64
Golden Dwarf Champ...... 90........... 65/68
Isis Candy.................... 75........... 64
Kimberly....................... 60........... 51
Large Red Cherry........... 75........... 68
Liz Burt........................ 75........... 65
Mariyushka................... 70........... 72
Mini Gold...................... 62........... 52/52
Outdoor Girl.................. 65........... 64
Patio Orange................ 60............ 51
Pinnochio..................... 55........... 59
Ramapo F6................... 85 ...........67
Red Robin..................... 60........... 58
Resista Dwarf................ 65........... 68
Rozalinda...................... 73........... 64
Shchelkovskiy Ranniy...... 50........... 62
Sibirskiy Skorospelyi........ 60........... 62
Tumbling Tom Red.......... 70........... 61
Tumbling Tom Yellow...... 70........... 56
Zagadka....................... 60........... 66

All of my plants get some shade during each day. I've noticed that those that get the most sun had earlier DTM's and those that had more shade tended to have later DTM's. I have to see how that plays out in the next few seasons. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the plants can make more of the chemistry that grows and ripens fruit if they get more direct sunlight. It may not be that simple, but I could draw that conclusion based on my data as of now.

Ted

[jwr6404]

Ted, I agree that Direct Sunlight is a major contributer to growing and ripening fruit. I also think that temperature is equally important. When i lived in Huntsville alabama I had the sense that if I dropped a tomato seed I would soon have a Tomato plant. here in the PNW I'm getting 16-17 hours of sunlight per day and I believe I'm 30-45 days away from ripe tomatoes our nighttime Temperature is still in the Lo 50s-upper 40s.This year I planted outside under TunnlCovers and in WoWs in April. Weatherwise it's been a great year so far. Last year I did not get a ripe tomato

[daninpd]

Where I live is a lot like your PNW location with nights under 50 and day highs ranging from under 60 to over 80. I just take the DTM number I'm given, add 45 days and that's pretty close. Last year I planted out in mid-May and some plants (like Aunt Gertie's Gold) didn't have mature fruit until the end of September, so that would be about 135 DTM. So my categories for around here are: early, late and never.

[tomatoguy]

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

I know some people think "days to maturity" is carved in stone, but isn't it just an average anyway?

I firmly believe it is carved in Jell-O. I have a Black Krim looking mighty early so far.

mater

[barkeater]

I find Container Ted's results fascinating. It goes without saying that container-grown plants are earlier due to heat. What I wonder, are those that are a day or 2 off cold tolerant, and the ones that are 10-12 days earlier in a pot not?

Also, Ramapo is cold tolerant and even here riipens in less than 85 days ( Thank you God;-). My earliest was 77. My latest may be this year, but we'll see.

[nctomatoman]

I think you bring up a great point, barkeater. I've found that plants grown in pots perform quite differently in terms of how quickly they take off, and this impacts DTM. In the case of plants that really seem to like hot feet - eggplant and peppers - the increases in yield can be quite dramatic. I'll never plant a sweet pepper or eggplant in the ground again, since the pot grown plants are so consistently successful and high yielding.