Gukers and Guker's Special

[kygreg]

What, if any, is the difference between these 2 varieties? Is one pink and the other red and/or if one RL and the other PL? Thanks

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by kygreg

What, if any, is the difference between these 2 varieties? Is one pink and the other red and/or if one RL and the other PL? Thanks

I just did a Google search for Guker's Special but lost the link getting it here and didn't have time to read all the links.

But if you go to Tania's page for Guker's you'll find that it's a PL indet pink beefsteak and I think a couple of those Google links said pink, but I didn't check the leaf form.

So they may be the same.

[amideutch]

Here are a couple Pics of my Gukers Special plant taken 25th Aug and Oct 10th 2010. It was PL/Pink/Ind. Ami

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Here are a couple Pics of my Gukers Special plant taken 25th Aug and Oct 10th 2010. It was PL/Pink/Ind. Ami

So if you compare what Ami just said about Guker's Special with what Tania has at her website for Guker's, they appear to be identical as to basic traits.

[Tormato]

Gary (KY),

Now you've opened up a can 'o worms.

While Guker's is likely a shortened form of Guker's Special, and probably the same tomato, the real question is whether Guker's/Guker's Special is the same as Prudence Purple (which is the same tomato as Pruden's Purple).

Perhaps "macmex" (George M., who Carolyn knows, if I remember correctly) can be PM'd to address this question. He likely knows more about Guker's Special than most. I'm thinking you received your seeds from me. I received my seeds from George.

Gary (MA)

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tormato

Gary (KY),

Now you've opened up a can 'o worms.

While Guker's is likely a shortened form of Guker's Special, and probably the same tomato, the real question is whether Guker's/Guker's Special is the same as Prudence Purple (which is the same tomato as Pruden's Purple).

Perhaps "macmex" (George M., who Carolyn knows, if I remember correctly) can be PM'd to address this question. He likely knows more about Guker's Special than most. I'm thinking you received your seeds from me. I received my seeds from George.

Gary (MA)

Yes, I know George but what am I supposed to be asking him?

Another question. Why the suggestion that Guker's may be the same as Prudence/Prudens Purple?

In the earlier SSE YEarbooks there was a going back and forth about the name but it settled on Prudens.

Here's one of the listings for Prudence Purple from the 1994 Yearbook.

The listing is from someone in OK, and unless GEorge's last name starts with a a Q it's not him. And now I know George's name starts with an M, so there you go.

Th OK person says his original source was in 1985 from a Mr McLaughlin ( GEorge) and from IN ( GEorge must have moved) who told him that he would be listing the tomato as Prudence rather than Pruden's Purple and that he should do the same. He ( GEorge) got seed from an old gent in Charleston IL who spelled it that way.

No reason for spelling it Prudence was given.

In that same YEarbook 3 folks listed it under Prudence and 18 as Pruden's Purple.

In the current Yearbook Guker's Special seeds were received by one person from GEorge, perhaps the Mr M above, now that I know his last name, in 2007. apparently original seeds from a Mr. Guker, a greenhouse grower in IL. ( the greenhouse grower mentioned above?)

Guker's is listed by one person in the current Yearbook who got the seeds from a 2003 listing in the YEarbook by SSE itself, SSE Tomato 1374, which puts it back to entering SSE in the late 70's to early 80's, but I didn't go back to check anymore.

So am I supposed to be contacting GEorge to try and tie Guker's to Pruden's Purple as well as confirming that Guker's Special and Guker's are the same variety, which it looks like they are from everything I've seen. And asking him why it should be Prudence instead of pruden's, just b'c one person wanted to spell it that way?

Now back to watching tennis from the US Open.

[carolyn137]

OK, I found George's e-mail address and will e-mail him this thread and ask him to come to Tville and answer as he will.

I noticed that he hasn't posted here since mid-July and I don't know if he has PM's sent to him, I know I don't b'c I'm here every day, so this way he can't escape from this thread and hopefully answering the questions posed.

[macmex]

I'm writing with my IPod and don't have access to my computer right now. I received seed for Prudence Purple and Guker's Special back in 1984, from (if my memory is correct) a Mr. Thomas Watson o Charleston, IL. This was through an ad in Gardens For All. They are definitely different varieties, though the fruit is similar. Guker's Special tends (at least in the Upper Midwest) to set a good many early fruit, down low on the plant, and then a trickle of fruit up high. I can't get Guker's Special to grow reproduce here in the extremes of Oklahoma. Prudence Purple, on the other hand, does alright here. In 1984 or 1985 I set seed of Prudence Purple to Dr. Roger Quiet, a dentist in Broken Arrow. He grew it successfully for some years. My current seed is only a generation or two removed from frozen seed he sent me from his 1985 crop.

I'm not entirely convinced that some of the Pruden's Purples are identical to Prudence Purple. Several folks have purposed to do a comparison grow out. But to date I have not heard any results.

Okay, I will drop back in soon, hopefully when I have access to a keyboard and my files!

Yes, though we have never personally met, I consider myself Carolyn's friend

George
Tahlequah, OK

[Tormato]

Carolyn,

I said it was opening a can 'o worms.

I received Guker's Special from George M. several years ago. He said his source was the greenhouse grower (Mr. Guker).

George told me he believed Guker's Special was likely a "selection" of Prudens (Prudence) Purple by Mr. Guker. George used both spellings of P. Purple, with me.

Gary

[nctomatoman]

Hey George! I am sure you won't recall, but my request of the bush bean Fowler was my very first seed request upon joining the SSE many years ago! In fact, I talked about just that transaction at the recent campout during the opening of my keynote - and had a few fresh Fowler pods with me (I grow it regularly to this day, not having found a bush bean that is superior to it!). Kind of a pain to dry, though - pods are so fleshy!

Craig (once PA LE C, now NC LE C)

[kygreg]

The Guker's Special I am growing this year did not have it first ripe fruit until 8/20. It was planted the first week of May. I was out of town for 3 days and returned and the GS had 5 or 6 ripe or near ripe on it weighing 12-16 oz.

[macmex]

I don't recall thinking that Guker's Special was a selection out of Pruden's Purple I received both varieties, back in 1984, from Thomas Watson, a member of Gardens For All, who lived in Charleston, IL. He told me that he got Guker's Special from a Mr. Guker, owner of a green house in Matoon, IL. Will have to look it up again, but I believe Mr. Guker's first name was George.

The name Guker's Special got shortened by the Seed Saver's Exchange. It's been a peeve of mine that they have done this with a number of varieties I've sent them. But then, upon reflection, I realized that I often use abbreviations in my labeling. They may have lost my correspondence and recorded the abreviation from the label. I need to label things correctly in the future!

George

[macmex]

Craig, I'm always pleased when someone adopts a variety I send them. Yes, if it wasn't for the difficulty in processing seed I'm sure that Fowler Bush Bean would easily supplant varieties such as Contender.

I sent an unfinished document tracing early SSE sources of Pruden's/Prudence Purple to Carolyn. I can send a copy to anyone else upon request. The long and the short of it Is that I cannot make a direct link between the two seeds, except back in 1985, when I arbitrarily changed the name I sent out my seed, to Pruden's Purple. However, within months I realized that 1) I had no proof that these two were the same & 2) I became convinced that ibshould honor my original sources wishes and stay with his name, unless it was proven that these were indeed the same. In my mind it is still possible that Thomas Watson received his seed from a common source as those who went with "Pruden's Purple." But I cannot find proof of that. Also, some who list "Pruden's Purple" mention "rough fruit," whereas, in my experience Prudence Purple always produces smooth fruit. And, though indeterminate in growth Prudence Purple hasn't fit descriptions of having "large vines."

Just a few more thoughts

George

[retiree]

I'd be interested in this document about Prudence Purple. What do I need to do?
Thank you,
Neil G. (Canada)
P.S.
Do you have any seeds of Prudence Purple? I'd like to try a comparison.

[Tormato]

I think I'll open the bottom of the can 'o worms, now.

Anyone care to comment on SSE's Pruden's Purple, True Variety? I've never trialed it.

Gary