Soil building for nutrient density

[simmran1]

I'm not sure where I saw Gaia Green, but Kelp4less does not have that. If they did, it would be free shipping (like all their products). Kelp meal is kelp-fish bonemeal and I have not used. I only get the water soluable powdered kelp, as in liquid feeding/soil drench.

[Chrissykin]

I wanted to give a little update on my azomite use. I have a flower bed that never produces beautiful flowers. I have tried everything I could think of and still go the organtic route since I garden organtically as much as possible. i used compost, tons of organtic fertilizers, fish emulsion, coffee grounds etc. and last year in frustration I asked on idig about getting better flowers and they said to bust out the Miracle Grow so I did and still nothing fabulous.

My kids got a couple if guinea pigs last fall and I have been having them dump the used bedding in the flower bed. Only half got covered because it is a big bed. Well this year I put some azomite in each planting hole and I am happy to say the entire bed has more than doubled in size in two weeks. All the stuff looks really healthy and I cannot believe the growth. Even with the crummy weather we have been having.

I read somewhere over the winter that some guy put a half cup in each earthbox so that is what I did. Now I watched a video from the grow your greens guy and he is saying two pounds per earthbox so I don't know if the half cup will even matter. I have already reset all my earthboxes so I guess that experiment will have to wait until I reset them for fall.

I am really excited about the growth in my flowers so I am hoping this azomite works as well as it is cracked up to be.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Chrissykin

I wanted to give a little update on my azomite use. I have a flower bed that never produces beautiful flowers. I have tried everything I could think of and still go the organtic route since I garden organtically as much as possible. i used compost, tons of organtic fertilizers, fish emulsion, coffee grounds etc. and last year in frustration I asked on idig about getting better flowers and they said to bust out the Miracle Grow so I did and still nothing fabulous.

My kids got a couple if guinea pigs last fall and I have been having them dump the used bedding in the flower bed. Only half got covered because it is a big bed. Well this year I put some azomite in each planting hole and I am happy to say the entire bed has more than doubled in size in two weeks. All the stuff looks really healthy and I cannot believe the growth. Even with the crummy weather we have been having.

I read somewhere over the winter that some guy put a half cup in each earthbox so that is what I did. Now I watched a video from the grow your greens guy and he is saying two pounds per earthbox so I don't know if the half cup will even matter. I have already reset all my earthboxes so I guess that experiment will have to wait until I reset them for fall.

I am really excited about the growth in my flowers so I am hoping this azomite works as well as it is cracked up to be.

Basically the degree that Azomite will help depends on the degree the minerals found in Azomite are lacking in your soil. That's why the Grow your own greens guy needs to use it so much. He uses raised beds that are almost 100% added materials like compost. So of course he needs to add his trace minerals too.

Depending on your soil, if you also need trace minerals, then Azomite will help. In earthboxes you are making your own soil, so yes in that case azomite helps tremendously. Even 1/2 cup

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Basically the degree that Azomite will help depends on the degree the minerals found in Azomite are lacking in your soil. That's why the Grow your own greens guy needs to use it so much. He uses raised beds that are almost 100% added materials like compost. So of course he needs to add his trace minerals too.

Depending on your soil, if you also need trace minerals, then Azomite will help. In earthboxes you are making your own soil, so yes in that case azomite helps tremendously. Even 1/2 cup

Is it a possibilty that unless you are breaking virgin ground in a low rainfall area that a very high percentage of soils are somewhat depleted in minerals? And, most if not all cultivated areas are very depleted? The interesting question about a soil that is not deemed deficient in trace minerals is: are those minerals in a form (fine enough grind) that the microbes can make them useful to the plant?

Glenn

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Chrissykin

I wanted to give a little update on my azomite use. I have a flower bed that never produces beautiful flowers. I have tried everything I could think of and still go the organtic route since I garden organtically as much as possible. i used compost, tons of organtic fertilizers, fish emulsion, coffee grounds etc. and last year in frustration I asked on idig about getting better flowers and they said to bust out the Miracle Grow so I did and still nothing fabulous.

My kids got a couple if guinea pigs last fall and I have been having them dump the used bedding in the flower bed. Only half got covered because it is a big bed. Well this year I put some azomite in each planting hole and I am happy to say the entire bed has more than doubled in size in two weeks. All the stuff looks really healthy and I cannot believe the growth. Even with the crummy weather we have been having.

I read somewhere over the winter that some guy put a half cup in each earthbox so that is what I did. Now I watched a video from the grow your greens guy and he is saying two pounds per earthbox so I don't know if the half cup will even matter. I have already reset all my earthboxes so I guess that experiment will have to wait until I reset them for fall.

I am really excited about the growth in my flowers so I am hoping this azomite works as well as it is cracked up to be.

This is really useful and encouraging information. I love the idea that you were reccommended to go the chemical route and did not get the desired result and then witnessed substantial results from trace minerals. I wonder if there are folks that are giving up attempting to grow things that this sounds to radical to try?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

Is it a possibilty that unless you are breaking virgin ground in a low rainfall area that a very high percentage of soils are somewhat depleted in minerals? And, most if not all cultivated areas are very depleted? The interesting question about a soil that is not deemed deficient in trace minerals is: are those minerals in a form (fine enough grind) that the microbes can make them useful to the plant?

Glenn

The variability in that question! I wouldn't presume to know the exact answer to that, if an answer actually even exists. Just do a soil test and you will know.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

The variability in that question! I wouldn't presume to know the exact answer to that, if an answer actually even exists. Just do a soil test and you will know.

Sorry for the level of variability in my questions. I know there are no easy answers to them and that is why I continue to research this subject. I try to look to nature for most manipulations I do to my soil and crushed rocks, compost, limited tilling and mulching seem incredibly logical to me without needing to do a soil test. I don't know why, but I am very sceptical of sending my soil out for testing. The older I get the more difficult time I have accepting analysis and advice of the so called experts.

If I were to go the soil testing route, what kind of institution would you suggest?

Glenn

[Chrissykin]

I have not had a soil test done. I got interested in azomite and more soil building from reading over the winter.i also watched the Garden from Eden movie (excellent movie and lots of good info on soil building)

A little history on my flower bed...I don't know anything about the soil. The former homeowner had a landscape company build the beds across the front of my house. My flowers never looked that great and I can grow flowers just fine. My neighbors all said his were stop and look beautiful beds. I know from talking to his BFF neighbor he used a lot of Miracle Grow.

I try to garden organtically and was getting so frustrated, I spend all this time and money growing flowers from seed, spending a small fortune on compost and organtic fertilizers and being disappointed the last three years. When I started reading about the azomite I got really excited. We will see how it works out, my plan is to keep having the kids dump the used guinea pig bedding in the flower beds. It seems to be breaking down really quickly (i am amazed at the earthworm population in the half that the bedding has been applied to)and I would like to finish the bed with it and I am thinking of ordering more Azomite and broadcasting it more heavily throughout the bed later in the summer or early next spring. I really don't want to have to break out the Miracle Grow because it goes against what I am trying to do organtically.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

Sorry for the level of variability in my questions. I know there are no easy answers to them and that is why I continue to research this subject. I try to look to nature for most manipulations I do to my soil and crushed rocks, compost, limited tilling and mulching seem incredibly logical to me without needing to do a soil test. I don't know why, but I am very sceptical of sending my soil out for testing. The older I get the more difficult time I have accepting analysis and advice of the so called experts.

If I were to go the soil testing route, what kind of institution would you suggest?

Glenn

1/2 the problem is that there are so many soils! Another problem is defining "virgin". You mean deep rooted perennial grasses and forbs? Or brush? or trees? Was whatever was there before able to reach with roots deep enough to replenish the trace minerals? Assuming they were there in useful quantity to begin with? How was the land used? Wildlife? It is just impossible to answer without a pretty thorough study!

All I can tell you is that to get everything functioning again in organic you have to think in cycles and systems, not single issues standing alone. Then you mimic those natural cycles and systems as best you can with what you have available.

As for a soil test. Sure over time it is possible to get everything going again without one. Nature does it, so can you... when you mimic nature. The problem is: to the earth nature has hundreds, thousands or even longer to "fix it". Doubtful you want to wait that long. So getting a test from a reputable agricultural University is helpful in "jump starting" that process. That "jump start" might include the need for azomite, or it might not.

[dpurdy]

Glenn,
I believe that soil test for Connecticut residents is free. There are two locations that you can send your soil samples to. One is in Windsor Ct., and the other is in New Haven Ct.. Here is a link to a web page that explains the process and how to send in your soil samples. It can't get any easier than that. It cost me everytime I get my done in my state. A soil test will clarify any issues you have with deficiencies in your soil. They will also provide you with suggestions of what to add to your soil so that you can have the correct balance of nutrients and ph. http://www.ct.gov/caes/cwp/view.asp?a=2836&q=378206
As Redbaron suggested, it's the only way to make corrections to your soil that won't take a number of years. It also takes away all the time you spend scratching your head trying to figure out what's the next step or ingredient to add.
dpurdy

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by dpurdy

Glenn,
I believe that soil test for Connecticut residents is free. There are two locations that you can send your soil samples to. One is in Windsor Ct., and the other is in New Haven Ct.. Here is a link to a web page that explains the process and how to send in your soil samples. It can't get any easier than that. It cost me everytime I get my done in my state. A soil test will clarify any issues you have with deficiencies in your soil. They will also provide you with suggestions of what to add to your soil so that you can have the correct balance of nutrients and ph. http://www.ct.gov/caes/cwp/view.asp?a=2836&q=378206
As Redbaron suggested, it's the only way to make corrections to your soil that won't take a number of years. It also takes away all the time you spend scratching your head trying to figure out what's the next step or ingredient to add.
dpurdy

dpurdy,

Thanks for the info. Thanks to all who are reccommending a soil test. It makes good sense to know where I'm starting from if my planned destination is more nutrient dense food and improved soil fertility.

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

Over the past year or so I have been reading about building soils to provide more nutrient dense and flavorful produce. I find the subject fascinating. Most of the research seems to point to increasing levels of calcium and using rock dust to "remineralize" depleted soils. It seem logical that one of the smartest things we can do as gardeners/farmers is to provide the most healthful produce for ourselves, our families and our customers. Is anyone currently following this strategy? What are you using? Have you noticed any difference in quantity of worms, growth of plants and taste of produce?

I'm a big fan of growing nutrient dense food and yes, there is a big difference in the size and number of worms in my gardens since I made soil fertility a top priority. I'll skip the details, but it suffices to say there are books on the subject and improving soil fertility is way more than adjusting pH and adding lime, compost or rock dust.

I'm also a big fan of soil testing. I know there are those who add this and that and get good results. Are they just lucky or are they getting good results when they could get great results? There is a diminishing return to building soil fertility. Once you achieve the optimum soil fertility, the addition of more amendments does not improve anything and is an additional expense. If you think about it, there needs to be a balance of minerals in the soil. Balance is not just equal amounts of each. It is also possible to overshoot your soil fertility requirements and create a problem that you may later have to fix.

For those that do not soil test, how do you know that your soil fertility is better now than last year or the year before? Is your OM increasing or decreasing and BTW, what is your % OM? There is a difference between Organic Matter (OM) and Organic material (Om) in your garden.

Improving soil fertility is also not a one year job and can easily take several years to accomplish but the results are well worth the effort.

I also have issues with people giving specific advice, based on their soil and their soil parent material, as gospel. Each of us has a different climate and parent soil material to work with. Even my neighbor, who has a garden that is about 10 feet from mine, has much different soil than I do. How do I know? He had it trucked in.

One final thought. Here in Indiana, many farmers lime their fields. They do this because they use anhydrous ammonia which changes their pH, not for any other reason. Copying 'some' of the things the farmer down the road does is not always a good thing to do.

[COMPOSTER]

Great post! You know sometimes we (I) can get caught in the trap of the "green thumb" persona thinking gardening is as much if not more art than science when if fact it is probably a minority of the former and a majority of the latter. I joined this blog because I thought I was a pretty good gardener, but I wanted to be a great gardener. You folks are providing excellent guidance for me to take a step in the right direction with a soil test. This is exactly why I joined!

Glenn

[COMPOSTER]

Just to update what I have done with my planting. I have made a mix of 100 shovels of my own 1 year old compost and mixed it with 50 lbs of rock dust. 1 shovel of the mixture is being mixed in the planting hole for each of my tomatoes and peppers. I am also mulching my beds with my own grass clippings.

Glenn

[dice]

I have had dramatic results like Chrissykin describes before, with
different things added to the soil.

When I was a kid we had this Dieffenbachia in about a 4 gallon, fairly
wide planter in some kind of potting soil.
( http://www.blankees.com/house/plants/dumbcane.htm )
It was around 4 ft tall, set in a fairly shady spot in the living room
about 10' from a south picture window. It had 1 leaf on the end of
the stem. Every year it would grow 1 new leaf and the old leaf
would die. I think my mother probably fertilized it occasionally
with Schultz 10-15-10 when she was feeding the other plants.
It was never repotted after the initial planting, as far as I remember.

After it had been there about 10 years, I happened to be reading
something and read about nutrients in wood ash. We had a fireplace
about 10-12' away from it, on the same wall as the picture windows.
So one time when I was cleaning the ashes out of the fireplace, I
happened to take a couple of handfuls and sprinkle them around on
top of the potting soil that the Dieffenbachia was growing in.

Whoosh, it took off! It grew 3 or 4 leaves over the next year, and
we moved it out onto the front porch in the summer, to get some
indirect sunlight that was a lot brighter than what it got in the house.

Eventually I read that it was poisonous and lost my enthusiasm for it,
but still it was a revelation. I am guessing that the pH had never been
right for it, and the wood ash raised the pH. That seemed more likely
than that it had been potassium deficient all of that time.

Another time was the first time I got some humic acid. I intended to use
it on tomatoes, but while I was waiting for spring, I mixed some up and
went around and treated all of the houseplants with it. Plants that had
never flowered or grown with any enthusiasm suddenly greened up,
started growing more vigorously, and flowered profusely in the summer.
They had never lacked for fertilizer, all different kinds in different years.
But the humic acid somehow made it available to them in a way that
it had never been before.

Using forest humus that you bagged up and brought home from
the woods in your planting holes will sometimes have that affect, too.
(Beware the weeds, ie look around to see what all else is growing
nearby when gathering it up. You don't want to bring home poison ivy
or something like that.)