Most 'economical' method of building up soil?

[Tania]

By the way, another way to build organic matter in the soil is to do hugelkultur. That works great for the new beds. Does not work too well for existing (traditional) beds that are in use around the year.

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by Tania

Great idea, I believe this will work. The only problem I really hate rabbitts. Too much of the rabbit care when I was a kid I guess LOL.

Chickens or guinea fowl I can take any time

When you use wood chips as chicken bedding, it is much easier to manage chicken poop. It comes partially decomposted, with wood chips, and can be spread directly to the garden beds. The best manure I can think of. Much easier to spread than heavy horse manure. Much more nutritious.

Tania.. Now you can thank them for their contribution instead of thinking of them as another chore (as it is for me) but they really are easy keepers. You don't need to groom them, vet them, coddle them... nothing. feed, water, and harvest their poop. Just keep the wind off of them.

[Redbaron]

Grass. Primarily the grass that grows between the rows and becomes next years beds. But also grass clippings from the yard to a lesser extent. Most people don't realise that the trick to long term deep carbon sequestration is the roots of living perennial grasses and forbs. They pump lots of carbon deep in the soil in the form of exudates that feed mycorrhizal fungi, which in turn feeds all the rest of the soil biology.[1] The waste product of all that biological activity is humus. Because the soil is never broken by the plow or tiller, that carbon sticks there.....up to thousands of years potentially.[2] Tilling in organic matter does help, but it takes a whole lot more and the plowing releases almost as much as is added. The exudates no till method is better from this POV and VERY economical.

[Lindalana]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

Getting 4-6% organic matter in a perpetually used garden is not as easy as it sounds. A 1/2 inch of compost may maintain organic matter but it might not build it at all. Organic matter is constantly being used up and needs to be replenished at a pretty substantial rate to stay in that 4-6% range. Especially if you are cultivating and tilling. Also, I think a whole lot depends on where you are located. Warmer climates will use organic matter at a much quicker rate than colder climates.

Glenn

So then question remains why organic matter disappear so fast that it needs to be constantly resupplied? If most of tomato plant except tomato of course returned and then added value/ energy taken by tomato fruit itself should not soil balance it out?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Lindalana

So then question remains why organic matter disappear so fast that it needs to be constantly resupplied? If most of tomato plant except tomato of course returned and then added value/ energy taken by tomato fruit itself should not soil balance it out?

There are basically 2 cycles pertaining to this issue. One is the short term carbon cycle, the other is the long term carbon cycle.

Basically if you want to increase carbon in the soil you need to remove it from the short term carbon cycle and put it in the long term...sequestered in the soil. Every time you either break the ground or till the soil....ie expose sequestered carbon to excess oxygen, it oxidizes, produces CO2, and enters the short term carbon cycle ie atmosphere ---->Photosynthesis---->Plant biomass----->Decay----->humus---->oxidation---->atmosphere again and the cycle repeats with you having to work very hard for minimal returns. In this respect Composter is absolutely correct.

However, there is a long term carbon cycle to the soil as well. It requires no tillage and no bare soil. The soil must be always covered and preferably with living photosynthesis active plants as long as climate allows. That means including winter adapted plants where possible. In this deep carbon cycle it is slightly different.

You still have the short term carbon cycle as above atmosphere ---->Photosynthesis---->Plant biomass----->Decay----->humus---->oxidation
---->atmosphere again

But you also have a significant % that follows this cycle deeper in the soil Rhizosphere zone where there is less oxygen: atmosphere ---->Photosynthesis
---->Plant biomass----->Decay----->humus---->sequestered up to 1,000s of years or more in stable form in the soil, never returning to the atmosphere.

This way it is possible to use biomimicry to let the biological activity work for you instead of fighting against biological forces. This is one of the primary philosophical and practical keys to permaculture.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by Lindalana

So then question remains why organic matter disappear so fast that it needs to be constantly resupplied? If most of tomato plant except tomato of course returned and then added value/ energy taken by tomato fruit itself should not soil balance it out?

Soil microorganisms feed on organic matter, producing nutrients for our plants in the form that plants can absorb (nitrate). This is called mineralization. Tilling exposes more organic matter to air, and this increases the rate of mineralization.

Plants feed on nitrate provided by the micro organisms. Some nitrate will also be leached out of the soil by rain. Some will get further decomposed by bacteria into gases like nitrogen (N2) and nitrous oxide (N2O), which will go into the atmosphere.

So not all the N will return back to soil by putting plants back, as some loss naturally occurs.

Same for Carbon. As fungi breathe, they release CO2.

I am probably oversimplifying this. I am no soil expert, this is the way I understand the process.

Tatiana

[Tania]

Scott, that makes lots of sense. Your post explains why no tillage and cover helps. Thank you!

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tania

Scott, that makes lots of sense. Your post explains why no tillage and cover helps. Thank you!

You are welcome Tania. Oh and BTW your post about bacteria and fungus and mineralization is also correct and fits into the short term carbon cycle under the generalised category "decay". I had tried to simplify so people could grasp the bigger picture without being too bogged down with details.

One important thing to note is the general idea behind tillage is that when you release CO2 either by oxidation or biological decay, any of the other nutrients attached either chemically or simply adsorbed on the surface, become released. (you correctly called it mineralisation) So tillage does (and always has) improved crop growth. But it is "mining" the soil, not sustainable. Once the majority of the plant nutrients are released because the carbon is now released in the form of CO2, you have limited fertility and that must be replaced with high inputs, either with chemical fertilizers or organic fertilisers like manure. So this explains why a prairie ecosystem can remain continuously fertile for eons, but a plowed field doesn't.

[COMPOSTER]

I'm a huge propenent of buiding soil organic matter through composting and mulching. I'm enthusiastic but sceptical about no till. I think that most of us will have a difficult time sufficiently building organic matter in annualy planted garden beds without some form of tilling/cultivating. I believe that composted animal manures with straw or wood shaving bedding worked into the top 2 or 3 inches of soil is an excellent way to build organic matter. It does act act as a fertilizer but the materials that are higher in lignans should increase the organic matter.

[Tania]

Glenn,

I was also skeptical about no till in the past (I did not understand how it would be possible!)

But once we switched and learned the 'new way', I am loving it. There is no way back!

I love our 'cover and do not disturb' the soil gardening practices.

The only beds are are still dug are potatoes, but this is going to be fixed in 2015 by planting them under straw.

I am still undecided about composting. We do compost a lot. Hey, we compost wood chips too! But I keep thinking that bringing these organic materials directly into the garden beds would be much more beneficial in terms of creating more organic matter, and less work moving it around.

We just have not figured out yet a practical way to do it in our garden. But I am sure we will soon!

Tatiana

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

I'm a huge propenent of buiding soil organic matter through composting and mulching. I'm enthusiastic but sceptical about no till. I think that most of us will have a difficult time sufficiently building organic matter in annualy planted garden beds without some form of tilling/cultivating. I believe that composted animal manures with straw or wood shaving bedding worked into the top 2 or 3 inches of soil is an excellent way to build organic matter. It does act act as a fertilizer but the materials that are higher in lignans should increase the organic matter.

It is OK to be skeptical COMPOSTER. Just remember what you said though.

Getting 4-6% organic matter in a perpetually used garden is not as easy as it sounds. A 1/2 inch of compost may maintain organic matter but it might not build it at all. Organic matter is constantly being used up and needs to be replenished at a pretty substantial rate to stay in that 4-6% range.

The prairies had 10% and more meters deep back when they first were plowed, especially the former tall grass prairies. This is a result of a different mechanism than the short term carbon cycle found in the top 2-3 inches of soil which your mulches and manures are promoting, but having difficulty maintaining. A growing plant in symbiosis with beneficial bacteria and fungi sends as much as 20% or more of it's total products of photosynthesis to the roots to feed that deep carbon cycle. The key is to restore the functionality of that deep cycle, because decades ago when the land was first cleared, that cycle was broken.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

It is OK to be skeptical COMPOSTER. Just remember what you said though.

The prairies had 10% and more meters deep back when they first were plowed, especially the former tall grass prairies. This is a result of a different mechanism than the short term carbon cycle found in the top 2-3 inches of soil which your mulches and manures are promoting, but having difficulty maintaining. A growing plant in symbiosis with beneficial bacteria and fungi sends as much as 20% or more of it's total products of photosynthesis to the roots to feed that deep carbon cycle. The key is to restore the functionality of that deep cycle, because decades ago when the land was first cleared, that cycle was broken.

I think I understand what you are saying Redbaron but, the prairies were covered with grasses and other plants that were grazed by native animals and then left to grow back, significantly increasing their root systems. From what I have read, that is probably the single best way to increase soil organic matter. However that is not possible in most home gardens. However, lightly tilling meaningful amounts of compost and following up with organic mulches is. That said, I'm working and studying to learn more about no till and cover crops. My only experience with cover crops is winter rye and that needed to be chopped into the soil 3-4 weeks before planting. It worked great but was a ton of work and if the soil was too wet I would need to wait before incorporating it delaying my planting schedule.

My thought process on working the compost into the top 2 or 3 inches is that this will prevent the compost from being 100% exposed to the air and it will retain more fertility. Also, and this is probably very flawed logic, it we be that much closer to the root zone of the plants.

Glenn

[Boogieman]

I have a little story to tell about my tomatoes relating to soil building.

Last winter was the first winter with two indoor dogs. With the dogs being quite short legged, wintertime with snow was not fun for them. We cleared a small path near the sidewalk for the dogs to "do their business" at. Once it started warming up, we took them to other places in the yard. Spring rains came and with them and the snow melt, none of the dog poo was visible on the ground at all.

When I planted the tomatoes this year, they go near the walkway since we have a very small area for growing. There was no smell or anything at all. I took a shovel and dug one shovel worth of dirt out, put the tomato plant in and planted it. They have grass between plants and all around the base. I also tried putting half a cup of dog food in the bottom of the hole as this is something my grandpa used to do. I thought I would give it a try.

Fast forward a bit. My tomatoes GREW and GREW. They started destroying the 42" cages like they were made of wet cardboard. Every time it rained, the whole plant would be plastered to the ground. Well, after fighting my tomatoes desires to lay down and take a nap after every small rain, I ended up getting 5' concrete reinforcement mesh and making my own 5' tall cages. These were staked down with cheap electric fence poles. They cost about $7 each, counting the two electric fence post stakes. Nothing I have seen commercially available comes close to the strength or size.

I have one tomato that grew up to 8.5 feet tall, then the vines fell over, draping down the cage. It has continued to grow while draping down. I know it could have been over 10 ft tall easily if I had a taller cage. Long story short, the tomatoes in the easier to get places, where the dogs went to the bathroom more, grew taller there. Same light conditions and such, but where our dogs did most of their business, there are monstrous plants. My plants in the backyard are junk. The neighbors did horrible this year. It was a horrible year for tomatoes here but the ones I am telling about did great. Huge plants, and huge yields. I would guess the stems are between the size of a nickel and a quarter at the ground. I have never had luck with tomatoes like this.

It probably sounds a bit gross, using the areas my dogs used the bathroom to grow tomatoes, but after seeing the results, I plan on doing this every year.

I also plan on planting about 1/3 less plants, since the bigger plants yield much more tomatoes.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

I think I understand what you are saying Redbaron but, the prairies were covered with grasses and other plants that were grazed by native animals and then left to grow back, significantly increasing their root systems. From what I have read, that is probably the single best way to increase soil organic matter. However that is not possible in most home gardens. However, lightly tilling meaningful amounts of compost and following up with organic mulches is. That said, I'm working and studying to learn more about no till and cover crops. My only experience with cover crops is winter rye and that needed to be chopped into the soil 3-4 weeks before planting. It worked great but was a ton of work and if the soil was too wet I would need to wait before incorporating it delaying my planting schedule.

My thought process on working the compost into the top 2 or 3 inches is that this will prevent the compost from being 100% exposed to the air and it will retain more fertility. Also, and this is probably very flawed logic, it we be that much closer to the root zone of the plants.

Glenn

The easiest way to explain it Glenn is by going here: The Red Baron Project year 1 p5

Remember the thread is " Most 'economical' method of building up soil?" Believe me This is economical. First off the mulched part uses 1/3 less because I am not mulching the whole garden, just the rows of tomatoes and peppers. No fertiliser cost, no pesticide cost, no herbicide cost. 1/3rd the mulch cost. (maybe free if you find a source of free mulch). Paper is generally free, but if not you can buy long rolls very cheap. All you have to do is have some rich compost soil to fill in after each transplant and inoculate it with mycorrhizal fungi spores. Nature does the rest. Even in hot Oklahoma, I maybe water 2-3 times in a whole season. (+ when I transplant) The most I ever had to water even with a severe drought was 5 times all season. My water is free. I simply didn't want to over water.

Next year, move the row over 2 feet. Grass will come right back on last years row. (I learned that this year) I still use covers. I grow a cover crop mixture through the winter after the tomatoes die. Besides that all you need to do is mow. Couldn't be easier. Even cheap and easy enough for a lazy cheapskate like me.

This way I get the most from both the long and short carbon cycles, and the soil improves astonishingly fast.

Now I have to say this though. Even though my soil was poor and hard as a rock through mismanagement years ago before I even lived in Oklahoma, the substrate is LitB. That's prime perfect farmland when it has enough carbon in it. So I don't know if it will work everywhere in every case. That's why I am always asking people, like I did Tania, to please try a row or two and post their results, good or bad.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Tania

Glenn,

I was also skeptical about no till in the past (I did not understand how it would be possible!)

But once we switched and learned the 'new way', I am loving it. There is no way back!

I love our 'cover and do not disturb' the soil gardening practices.

The only beds are are still dug are potatoes, but this is going to be fixed in 2015 by planting them under straw.

I am still undecided about composting. We do compost a lot. Hey, we compost wood chips too! But I keep thinking that bringing these organic materials directly into the garden beds would be much more beneficial in terms of creating more organic matter, and less work moving it around.

We just have not figured out yet a practical way to do it in our garden. But I am sure we will soon!

Tatiana

Tatiana,

I hear you loud and clear. I love the way you sound so enthusiastic about covering the soil and no till. I really hope it works for me. As you know from the thread on mulching with wood chips I'm currently experimenting with 6 actively gardened beds that are no till and covered with ramial wood chips and 2 that are covered and not being garden. From Scott's and your testimony I'm sure no till works. So far I'm having mixed results. I just need to see a little better results for myself and I will be converted.

I like the way Scott talks about carbon sequestration. Makes me feel like we could be at the cutting edge of environmentalism.

Glenn