one pointed heart shape on a truss of round cherries

[KarenO]

Question: I have saved seed from a distinctly heart shaped cherry that appeared on a truss of round cherries on one of my unstable crosses. Do you think that it is just an abnormal fruit, not properly pollinated or something or is there a chance that it is a somatic mutation?

KarenO

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by KarenO

Question: I have saved seed from a distinctly heart shaped cherry that appeared on a truss of round cherries on one of my unstable crosses. Do you think that it is just an abnormal fruit, not properly pollinated or something or is there a chance that it is a somatic mutation?

KarenO

I'm no expert, but I would hold on to the seeds from it and plant them and see if you get more hearts. I'm having the opposite of you. A plant that gave all small heart shaped cherries and was cut back to nothing regrew a new shoot. I let it grow since I had liked that tomato. There is no other tomatoes around and instead of the nice red heart cherry I was expecting I have these round , lots larger size cherry coming on.

I'm trying to figure out the what and why too. I did notice that on closer inspection that the skin was a bit thinner and a shade difference in final color though it tasted the same as the heart cherry.

I hope it something good for you turns out. : )

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by KarenO

Question: I have saved seed from a distinctly heart shaped cherry that appeared on a truss of round cherries on one of my unstable crosses. Do you think that it is just an abnormal fruit, not properly pollinated or something or is there a chance that it is a somatic mutation?

KarenO

Photo?

[AlittleSalt]

I would give it a try.

I have one cross that ripened pink in 2015. The seeds saved from them grew Yellow/Gold when ripe this year. They were the same size around 5 oz. Who knows how they'll do next year? I'm hoping for Gold when ripe though.

[KarenO]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Photo?

I take pictures of everything but for some reason not of this one. it was one of the first on a truss of six. the other five were round, this one was distinctly pointed, shaped just like a strawberry. few seeds, total of 13 in the fruit. I saved them separately. This was the only fruit on the whole plant that looked like this. might have just been a single misshapen fruit but you never know. little pointed cherries would be very cool.
Of course it showed up on one of those freaky bicolours giving us so much angst.



KarenO

[ginger2778]

Argh!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by KarenO

I take pictures of everything but for some reason not of this one. it was one of the first on a truss of six. the other five were round, this one was distinctly pointed, shaped just like a strawberry. few seeds, total of 13 in the fruit. I saved them separately. This was the only fruit on the whole plant that looked like this. might have just been a single misshapen fruit but you never know. little pointed cherries would be very cool.
Of course it showed up on one of those freaky bicolours giving us so much angst.



KarenO

Karen, when you say one of the first on a truss,do you mean the fruit nearest the stem,or last to ripen,just confirming.

And why do I ask? Since it has been known that environmental conditions can change a fruit form by forming a point, usually blunt rather than acute,at the blossom end.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...ge_Minsk_Heart

So if this heart shaped cherry was the one closest to the main stem,that's at least one reason what might have happened;due to weather when the fruit was fertilized.

And there is another well known strawberry shaped cherry tomato that is known.

https://www.google.com/search?q=stra..._AUIBygA&dpr=1

So it looks like some of your seeds might be taking a trip to FL?

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

I just remembered something, sometimes I do that. When Sam Womack started his project to breed what became Sweet Ozark Orange,I participated at first growing out his selections, but then stopped doing that for various reasons.

I even offered his SOO in seed offers, Sam did too and is still doing it here at Tville,so I finally decided I had to try it since everyone praised it so highly.

Here's what it should be

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

A week ago Freda brought in a fruit that was heart shaped and smooth, not very big and still not fully ripe.I actually shared this with Sam in his offer but no repsonse yet.

I finally asked Martha to cut it up when it was ripe, and darn,I forgot to save seeds,so there you go.I had 17 varieties out there and they were an absolute disaster this summer,all to say that that was the only fruit from that plant.

Carolyn

[KarenO]

Nearest the stem. First to ripen fruit opposite round as expected

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

. . . it has been known that environmental conditions can change a fruit form by forming a point, usually blunt rather than acute,at the blossom end . . .

Interesting. The Glovel heart I had last season . . . which I thought was probably due to environmental reasons, was definitely an acute point -- not blunt at all -- and I believe that Karen said that her unexpected cherry was, too. Doesn't prove anything, of course, but interesting.

And speaking of hearts, I've been seeing some interesting things in IS Heart? I still believe that it should be shared only with the ? attached, as it isn't IS Heart yet, but perhaps it's IS Heart?!

I took some pics, not as systematic as I'd wish, but with our incoming weather changes I'm skeptical that the most interesting ones will be able to mature naturally, even in their tents, but some of the little greenies have some interesting points.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by KarenO

Nearest the stem. First to ripen fruit opposite round as expected

Thanks Karen.

So we can rule out a seed DNA mutation,since only one fruit was involved and probably rule out weather since the two fruits were opposite each other.

So IMO that leaves us with a somatic mutation, and somatic mutations arise from DNA in the cell of a plant,not seed DNA and are permanent and heritable.

I know of one other circumstance where just one cherry fruit on a plant of all normal red ones was found and it was called Yellow Riesentraube.

Tania's link is not helpful,but it was discussed in the SSE Yearbook in the beginning and this link

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=37039

Post #10 from me speaks to it.

The most common DNA mutations of tomatoes are epidermis color and leaf form.

And the most common somatic mutations almost always result in one branch having a different color or shape, not a single fruit.

Casino,a large fruited variety from Italy had one branch of cherries, still red, that were calleed Casino Chips.

I had a somatic mutation of Dix Doight de Naples where one branch had the same color but a different shape. And yes,red to yellow,and the reverse ,somatic mutations are known, but I can't think of the one that I grew that had yellow fruits and one branch had red fruits of the same size.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

[KarenO]

Thank you Carolyn. I suppose I will grow it out and see what happens.
Karen

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

Interesting. The Glovel heart I had last season . . . which I thought was probably due to environmental reasons, was definitely an acute point -- not blunt at all -- and I believe that Karen said that her unexpected cherry was, too. Doesn't prove anything, of course, but interesting.

And speaking of hearts, I've been seeing some interesting things in IS Heart? I still believe that it should be shared only with the ? attached, as it isn't IS Heart yet, but perhaps it's IS Heart?!

I took some pics, not as systematic as I'd wish, but with our incoming weather changes I'm skeptical that the most interesting ones will be able to mature naturally, even in their tents, but some of the little greenies have some interesting points.

About IS heart.

I posted several times that it was Marina in Russia who got the great hearts from a plant she put out from my seeds.And JLJ and Marsha had both hoped that her hearts would do it.I tried to reach her but no response.

Yesterday I got a PM from her with a long list of varieties that she is sending me, and guess which one was last on the list.

Yes, IS heart, which she said was stable.

I'm getting back to her by e-mail and working out what she might like from what I have.I know at one time she was thinking of setting up a website to sell seeds,that was when her kids were smaller. If she is still thinking of it, great, then I don't have to think of sending her mostly ones with Russian origins,although I have lots of them, and she loves hearts, as I do and had quite a few on her list, so I know there are many hearts she doesn't have, and that's good as well.

Carolyn, and now to check the news section of my browser and the Sunday newspaper,although while I'm in a good mood now,maybe I shouldn't do that.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

About IS heart.

I posted several times that it was Marina in Russia who got the great hearts from a plant she put out from my seeds.And JLJ and Marsha had both hoped that her hearts would do it.I tried to reach her but no response.

Yesterday I got a PM from her with a long list of varieties that she is sending me, and guess which one was last on the list.

Yes, IS heart, which she said was stable. . . .

Was going to reply to this with info and somehow it just posted the quote -- possibly has something to do with a Malamute trying to sit on my lap -- so I'll edit quickly.

1) It's GREAT that you're getting IS Heart? seeds from Marina. All the seeds Marsha and I have produced are derived from a single IS Heart? plant I was able to get to produce fruit -- seed from your seed offer -- 2013, I think. I think that was the same year Marina started her plant(s), but at least there's a chance that the genetics are a little different.

2) Based on all the photos Marina has posted and what I saw here this season, I'm not sure that there's any difference in how far along the heartish road plants from either source have traveled.

3) I'm hoping to put up some pics of this year's IS Heart?s presently (don't know just when time will be available). I think we all -- and anyone else who has grown IS Heart thus far -- and anyone else interested who has useful suggestions -- should try to come up with some sort of general criteria for identifying an IS Heart? "true to type" fruit -- and then try to determine what proportion of hearts we're seeing -- not in a burdensome way that would discourage input, but . . . I think all of the IS Heart?s thus far are clearly producing some hearts and some where it's sometimes said "well, it's a really blunt heart, but still a heart" . . . but where that's only true if we acknowledge that, using the same standards next Valentine's Day, sources could sell red basketballs and tennis balls, calling them "really blunt hearts".

More later, somewhere.

[habitat_gardener]

I'm growing a pointed heart cherry this year, called Gardener's Sweetheart. Very firm. All of mine have a definite point/nipple at the end; I don't see it in some online photos.