What, Croatian Brandywine?

[Vince]

My brother bought this variety from a master gardners sale in the bay area and has raved about it. He descibes it as RL, extremely productive with many fruit to 2lbs. He thinks it is pink but not totally sure it isn't red. Obviously not a variation of brandywine sudduth, but what could this really be? A company named "the bountiful garden foundation" sells this variety. If you google croatian brandy wine a picture and description of the variety, which more or less matches my bros desciption, can be found in the first link.

[carolyn137]

I can't remember where I first saw it mentioned but I remember asking a few folks about it and found out practically nothing.

Here's the blurb from Bountiful Gardens Foundation site;

http://www.bountiful-garden.org/vari...randywine.html

It's heart shaped and there's a varietu listed in the SSE Yeartbook, introduced in 2006 that's called Croatian Heart, is red and is also a heart. The person who originally listed it, seed source WI, said it was PL, but a person who got seeds from him got RL plants.

It doesn't make much sense to me that it has anything to do with Brandywine, and if your brother's fruits looked like the picture, as you said, then his fruits are heart shaped as well. You might want to ask him to check the epidermis color to confirm that it's red.

I suppose the only way to track down facts would be to contact Bountiful Gardens Foundation site and ask, if you wanted to do that.

How very strange. I went back to look at something and found out that there two websites, one for Bountiful Gardens and one for the Bountiful Gardens Foundation and they're entirely different. At the former they offer Bountiful Garden Brandywine, and the picture shows a typical large pink plant with PL foliage.

[Vince]

Thanks Carolyn,

I saw some photos of my bros croatian brandywine and it is definately not heart shaped. It is a large pink oblate beefsteak. He said he will ask the mastergardners(in santa clara) where they got the seeds from and what fruit shape, color, and foliage should be expected.

[Tormato]

Carolyn,

Can you send me info (PM if you'd like) on the SSE source for Croatian Heart? The seed I've been trialing had no source info.

A year ago CH produced "redish" globes. The skin was about 95% yellow with some clear streaks/spots. It had both regular and potato leaves on the same plant. This year, saved seed from that plant produced regular leaf plants and potato leaf plants. Same "redish" globes.

Gary

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tormato

Carolyn,

Can you send me info (PM if you'd like) on the SSE source for Croatian Heart? The seed I've been trialing had no source info.

A year ago CH produced "redish" globes. The skin was about 95% yellow with some clear streaks/spots. It had both regular and potato leaves on the same plant. This year, saved seed from that plant produced regular leaf plants and potato leaf plants. Same "redish" globes.

Gary

Gary, I'm not sure what you're after here but the Croatian Heart listed in the SSE Yearbook was originally from a private person, not a commercial source.

The varieties in the Yearbook are available only to SSE members.

What was the source of your Croatian Heart seed? That's what I'm confused about....that is, where you got it in the first place since the only place I know where it's available is to SSE members but I didn't do any Googling for other possible sources.

[Tormato]

Carolyn,

I'm just trying to track down any possible sources for the five PL reds that showed up in my garden this year.

Croatian Heart had no source info with the seeds I received. You're the first one to mention a possible lead, for me.

Gary

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tormato

Carolyn,

I'm just trying to track down any possible sources for the five PL reds that showed up in my garden this year.

Croatian Heart had no source info with the seeds I received. You're the first one to mention a possible lead, for me.

Gary

Gary PL reds aren't that common as you know.

Do you know what ANY of your 5 PL reds is?

Did you get the Croatian Heart in a trade, sounds like it, and you can't remember the trade source, b'c it seems to me that's the only way you'd know for sure what you have.

The original seeds came to a listed SSE member from a private person in Sparta, WI, not that that helps much. I could give you the name of that SSE member but that's kind of frowned up and he couldn't tell you any more other than what I've already told you, as to ultimate origin, as in, where did the person in Sparta WI get them b'c if that info had been transmitted the SSE member would have given it.

It was listed for the first time just two years ago and I know of no other source so perhaps you traded with a listed SSE member who got it and grew it last year?

Aha, a mystery to solve.

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Gary PL reds aren't that common as you know.

Do you know what ANY of your 5 PL reds is?

Did you get the Croatian Heart in a trade, sounds like it, and you can't remember the trade source, b'c it seems to me that's the only way you'd know for sure what you have.

The original seeds came to a listed SSE member from a private person in Sparta, WI, not that that helps much. I could give you the name of that SSE member but that's kind of frowned up and he couldn't tell you any more other than what I've already told you, as to ultimate origin, as in, where did the person in Sparta WI get them b'c if that info had been transmitted the SSE member would have given it.

It was listed for the first time just two years ago and I know of no other source so perhaps you traded with a listed SSE member who got it and grew it last year?

Aha, a mystery to solve.

Here's what I know about the 5 PL reds...

"Croatian Heart" was sent to me by T'villian dwlcrl. His original source is unknown. One plant in 2007 produced a RL/PL red. My saved seed produced a RL red plant and a PL red plant in 2008. Nothing close to a heart shape.

"Grosse Marmande" was sent by T'villian tomatoaddict. Her original source is yet unknown, but she's working on it. Seed produced RL and PL plants. I could not see or taste any difference in the respective fruit.

"Marizol Red" was sent by T'villian elkwc36. His source was T'fest. Seed produced RL and PL plants. The regular leaf matched descriptions for MR that I've read. The PL produced red boatshaped beefsteaks to 20 ounces.

"Not Large Pink Bulgarian 2002" was sent by T'villian PNW D. This is her saved seed of Large Pink Bulgarian from Chuck W. in 2001, where she reported a heavilly ribbed PL pink. On a side note, Fusion reported RL pinks and reds, and a PL heart, in trials of LPB from this same source.

The final PL red is my saved seed of a 2 lb+ pink beefsteak, from an unmanned roadside stand in 2003. Previously, this seed produced two different PL pinks. I finally got around to planting a third seed.

I think Donald Rumsfeld said it best (or worst)...

"...because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

As for what the saved seed of these 5 PL reds will produce in 2009; I know that I don't know.

Gary