Mycorrhiza and heavy rains question

[barkeater]

Looks like I'll be giving these microrganisms a good test this year. I went into the local Ace hardware tonight, and they had a rebate on Jobes Organics 4# bags so you only pay $2.99 per bag. There were only 2 left and I got them. One was All-Purpose 4-4-4 and the other was Vegetable & Tomato 2-7-4. The ingredients in both are: feather meal, bone meal, composted poultry manure, and sulfate of potash.

Both also come with their "exclusive" Biozome Formula. There is every micro in the book in there. It looks like 7 different bacterias, 2 endomycos, 6 ectomycos, and whatever Archaea is.

I planted a row of 5 tomatoes a couple days ago, and only had commercial 5-10-10 available to mix in before I covered the raised bed with landscape cloth. So, the next row along side the first will now get the Jobes All-Purpose, and the next row of 5 the Tomato formula. Both will be applied exactly according to the directions: 1# per 30 square feet and a tablespoon in the planting hole.

This has always been very good soil to begin with, and we'll see if there is any noticable difference in plant health, yields, and flavor between the 3 rows over the course of the season.

Even with the rebate this product is 3 times more expensive than the basic 5-10-10, but I'll give it a chance. I never got a chance to get a load of composted manure from the local dairy this year, which is by far the cheapest and best way to go IMO, so it is a good year to experiment.

[dice]

Archaea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaea

(There is an actual product called BioZome that is
principally or all archaea:
http://www.groworganic.com/item_ISO3...theses=3574311
)

[amideutch]

I looked up your Jobes ferts with Biozome. I'm just curious about the Mycorrhiza it contains. I know biozome doesn't contain Mycorrhizae so is this an added extra to the fertilizer? Here a link to the thread we had previously on Biozome. Ami

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=9687

[barkeater]

Reading the bag, it turns out the Biozome is the Archaea: contains 23,679,698 colony forming units (CFU's) per pound of Nitrosopumilus maritimus. Hate to be the one who had to count them all! ;-)

[bohica]

Barkeater, unless you purchase a superior Mycorrhiza, you are going to be disappointed with the results. You need to look for a Mycorrhiza that contains Endo unless you are using it on trees, bushes, boxwoods ect.
Look for Mycorrhiza that Contains the Glomus intraradices species of vesicular arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi.
A very skeptical gardener that I know tested some and saw a major increase in the rootball of 5 of his test plants, he is going to use it on all 75-100 plants he is transplanting this week.
Message me if you would like links to a cost effective solution.

[barkeater]

bohica, it figures. There are only 21 propagules/# of 2 types of Glomus something endomycos. I don't have the bag. Don't know why there are so few compared to Pisolithus Tinctorious which has 253,386 props/# and 17121 props/# of various ectomychorrizae plus the bacterias and biozome.

From all the tests results I'm reading I still think it is a waste to put in healthy garden soil with high organic matter as these micros should already be there; for containers it could help a lot depending on the plant.

I'll find out this fall!

[bohica]

Barkeater,
I understand your feelings about "I still think it is a waste to put in healthy garden soil with high organic matter as these micros should already be there" but you have to take into consideration the fact that the use of chemical fertilizers, tilling, and hoeing can destroy the mycorrhizal fungi found in your soil.
If you have ever tilled or hoed, or used Chemical fertilizers you have most likely harmed the naturally occuring mycorrhiza.
We try to introduce as many "good guys" as we can.
One theory is that by adding lots of good guys, there wont be any room for the bad guys, it was once explained to me like having a empty room that you start filling with police, after a while, there isnt any room for bad guys...lol
Mycorrhiza will help in containers increasing the root mass and helping with transplant shock, and it will be extremely effective in garden soil due to the fact that as Mycorrhiza searches for phosphorus, it creates countless hyphae or strands; These fungal threads or hyphae from one plant can actually travel out into the soil and connect with threads of other fungal species on other plants, creating colonies of roots.
This Simply means that as the network of hyphae becomes well established, they can become one giant community of roots or hyphea that help to keep plant healthier.
I've listed a few of the benefits of Mycorrhiza below:

• Plants innoculated with mycorrhizal fungi are less susceptible to diseases, both soil borne and air borne.
• Plants innoculated with mycorrhizal fungi can dramatically increase the number of roots in container plants, making the plants more resistant to drought, and help plants to establish themselves faster when transplanted.
• Plants innoculated with mycorrhizal fungi take up nutrients and water more efficiently
• Reintroduces beneficial fungi to soils that have been worked with a tiller or by hand.

I hope this helps without being too redundant.
If you would like a link to Mycorrhiza, please message me.
Tom

[dice]

I have a bottle of BioZome here. It says "28,000,000,000"
cfu/oz (colony forming units per ounce), without mentioning
which archaea are in it. I suppose if one adds that to
N pounds of fertilizer, it dilutes to some average number
of cfu per pound, which is probably where whoever wrote
the label for the Jobe's product got their number.

Nitrosopumilus maritimus is an aquatic archaea which is
described as living by converting ammonia to nitrates
(which IIRC would actually help most plants, since they
need the nitrogen in nitrate form to use it).

A single species of archaea does not really fit with the product
description for BioZome, but since they don't list on the
label or on their website which archaea are in it, it is possible
that it only contains that one organism. (I don't see how
an organism that lives by converting ammonia to nitrates is
going to break down a wide spectra of non-chlorinated
hydrocarbons, silicates in soil, etc, even if it is useful for
nitrate synthesis.)

Either the BioZome advertising is exaggerating what it
can do in the soil, the list of archaea on the Jobe's label
is incomplete, or the Jobe's product is only using part
of what all is included in the BioZome product.

[chalstonsc]

Bohica,
This and other threads seem to go all over the place, and I have a hard time sorting it all out. As a strong proponent, could you please detail your recommendations for all to see and to compare with products they have used or are using? Maybe recommendations specifically for container growers ...and others for in ground growers? A "basic" recommendation and a "premium" recommendation? Recommendations using generic names and quantities so people can compare?....and specific products you are aware of that fulfill your generic recommendations? Thanks.

[bohica]

Chalstonsc
I appologize for jumping all over, it is hard to try to post or make recommendations while trying to keep a neutral stance on individual products and personal opinions.
I have been trying to avoid recommending products unless directly asked due to the fact that I own and operate a garden supply store. We only carry products that we use or have used successfully, that said...
The best Mycorrhiza that we have tested is hands down the RTI line of Mycorrhiza, this can be purchased under the Pumpkin Pro Or Mykos name, no difference in product, only difference is packaging.
This will work great in Containers as well as a garden. The Fungi doesnt know or distinguish between the two, it has a job to do and it will do it well.
I use Mycorrhiza when starting seeds, in the starting medium, then at transplant, I apply just enough that the roots come into contact with the mycorrhiza.
What makes this Mycorrhiza superior? The spore count is one factor, but the results are far more important to me. There isnt really any a basic or premium recomendation, I wouldn't recomend an inferior product. Just remember, Mycorrhiza isnt a magic bullet product, it is one piece of a larger puzzle in keeping the soil and Plants healthy.
I don't know if this has helped at all, I hope that it answered some questions.

[Paul R]

Just a little info.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...-in-world.html

[barkeater]

Well, thanks to the bone meal in the Jobes fertilizer, racoons ripped to shreds the landscape cloth covering one bed, then dug up all around my eggplants 200ft away next to the house on a flower bed. Thankfully the plants survived, but there is one habanero plant that is on life support.

[Timmah!]

If you don't trap them, perhaps put some food for them in an area away from your garden: that way they'll be nice & full before they ever get to your plants? We have a range cat for which we set out food; you can go out on any given evening & more often than not find a raccoon 'sharing' the cat's food with the cat a few feet away watching, waiting it's turn.

[chalstonsc]

Bohica,
Thanks