Heirloom Tomato Slander

[lumierefrere]

This was my first time (I still have some of those left!) I ever was confronted by the standard slanders against heirlooms. It was in a ebook forum and someone asked for suggestions for gardening topics. I said heirloom tomatoes and posted images of a Mazarini and a Little Lucky Heart.

Then someone replied heirlooms are beautiful and tasty but they have no disease resistance, require huge amounts of work and don't produce worth a darn. Plus they're impossible to grow in TX.

I immediately thought of Suze and Feldon and all the others from TX who seem to manage with great success.

I so wanted to tell this person to take it up with Carolyn regarding disease resistance. I'm sure I've made another internet non-friend for defending heirlooms. No I don't live in TX but from my experience, nothing she said was true. Except the part that heirlooms can be particularly beautiful.

In a head-to-head contest between Moreton Hybrid and Kasachstan Rubin this year, the KR won again. And I like the Moreton altho I think it could be exchanged for any number of red heirlooms to no loss or sorrow on my part.

Barb

[Worth1]

That reminds me of the guys I work with that live in Spokane that say where I live is a desert.
Strange to say when for a fact we get over twice the rain fall they do.

Heirlooms are impossible to grow in Texas like all other tomatoes if you start little 6 inch plants in May.
Which most people do down here which in turn puts folks off from moving here.
Which by the way is JUST fine by me.

All of you guys are welcome though.

Worth

[lumierefrere]

I would love to be your neighbor, Worth!

And if things keep going the way they have been in NY, it might just happen.

Barb

[feldon30]

Thanks Barb.

Send em to SETTFest.com. That ought to shush them up.

Is it too soon to start planning my 2013 Spring garden?

[ddsack]

Then someone replied heirlooms are beautiful and tasty but they have no disease resistance, require huge amounts of work and don't produce worth a darn. Plus they're impossible to grow in TX.

Do the naysayers ever list off how many and which heirlooms they personally have tried? If they tried to ripen (the highly touted in the media) Brandywines in the same space and time frame as the hybrid Early Girls they were used to, it's no wonder they were disappointed.

Huge amounts of work??? Well, some OP's might require a taller and stronger means of support unless you let them sprawl, but that's no different than the nicer sized hybrids of Better Boy size. As far as disease resistance, that's hard to generalize with only growing a few different plants each year. I have a couple of varieties that just never do well for me, but I don't hear of other Tomatovillians having particular trouble with them, so I assume there's something about my choice of planting spots or maybe inferior seed. I've never had trouble with Opalka, and yet in the past I've heard some complaints about it on Garden Web. There is just too much seasonal and regional variability in weather, soil, and gardening choices as to fertilizers and soil amendments. Plus the luck of the draw in what diseases might be blowing in the wind that year. A good spraying program has protected both equally well for me. In my first few years of gardening, I only grew hybrids, but for many years now I prefer the variety and flavor or OP's and only grow a hybrid or two every few years.

[travis]

It's not really slander. It's simply ignorance or parroting of squawk heard from a brainwashed county extension agent.

[lumierefrere]

I always get slander and libel mixed up anyway.

This is the quote

"Note that those delicious tomatoes are heirloom tomatoes--they are harder to grow (and almost impossible to grow in Texas due to the heat.) Their yields are also much lower (taste is higher!) and they are not disease resistant. In other words--great for the experienced grower in mild climates, not so great in very hot climates. Also you need more space (the plants are generally bigger) because you have to plant more of them to get the yields."

It's hard to know where to begin.

Yes, Morgan, it's too early to plan for 2013. And thanks for telling me where to send this person for more information if I'm ever contacted.

I don't get the work part. This year's garden was the messiest ever for me. I've been inside at the computer since April. I taught myself Photoshop and didn't have time for gardening, but I was on a weekly Daconil schedule. Very smart, may I say.

Some heirlooms are huge, (the Robson Angolan is a big plant for me) but I've never had one as hedge-like and annoying as the French hybrid, Carmello. You need a machete to get down the row by the last part of the season.

I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with hybrids. They all seem very similar to me. The Pink RazzleDazzle thing in the Park's Catalog is scary! It's the color of Pepto-Bismol.

Barb

[KLorentz]

Originally Posted by lumierefrere

I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with hybrids. They all seem very similar to me. The Pink RazzleDazzle thing in the Park's Catalog is scary! It's the color of Pepto-Bismol.

Barb

That describes about 90% of store bought maters



Kevin

[barkeater]

I don't promote heirlooms, I just bring them into work when I have extra of everything - including hybrids. From the taste comes request for seed - for both. A good-tasting tomato is what matters to most. Then again, mostly only tomato lovers grab them in the first place. I find Black Cherry is the most requested of anything most would consider "different" - just like I did in the beginning.

I also find the people who complain about heirlooms also can't grow a hybrid.Some people just aren't meant to have a garden!

[ceresone]

My only complaint is wishing they would ripen earlier!

[PaulF]

After several years of growing heirlooms in central Iowa and introducing/converting all my neighbors, we retired and moved to southeast Nebraska. I began anew the process in my small village. At first I was met with resistance because tomatoes are supposed to be medium sized, red, round tasteless things just like in the grocery store. A couple of years later there were six or eight converts. Last year I had more than twenty gardeners within driving distance asking for heirloom tomatoes.

Several times a year I have given gardening seminars and no matter the topic the audience (or maybe it's me) turns the subject to tomatoes. At a tomato tasting in August there were around sixty people who came to taste heirlooms. Several who I did not know brought their own heirlooms for the group to sample. The word is spreading. It has taken five years, but heirloom tomatoes are gaining in popularity in a previously 'hybrid only' part of the country. One of the most vocal proponents is our county extension educator.

I already have folks who want to know my variety plans for 2011. The Brownville Historical Society annual meeting includes a silent auction and for the fourth year I have been asked to donate tomato seedlings as an auction item. Last year the two five seedling donations brought in $35 each.

All they have to do is grown and taste and most people are hooked on heirloom tomatoes. I used to take tomatoes to the post office to give away; now lots of people are sharing heirlooms with their neighbors and friends.

I've grown hybrids for many years with good results. I always give a lot away with many comments about how much better home grown tomatoes taste than store bought. The only "wow" comments I received for the hybrid fruit was taste. Next year will be my second year to grow heirlooms. I am looking forward to the "wow" comments for taste, beauty, uniqueness, and variety for the heirloom or OP varieties. Better Boy and Early Girl are the same year after year after year. The heirloom varieties are a pleasant surprise for me.

I still grow a few hybrids and they are grown and cared for in the same manner, in the same garden as the heirlooms. No special attention or work for either.

Ted

[b54red]

As someone who has had a fair amount of experience growing tomatoes in an area with high temperatures, high humidity, a large pest population and a very wide assortment of tomato diseases, I have to agree that many of the hybrids are easier to grow and in general more productive than the majority of the heirlooms. Despite that the vast majority of the plants in my garden are heirlooms. I love the variety of flavors that are available with the heirlooms. Growing heirlooms has made gardening so much more fun. With the hybrids the only excitement was awaiting the first few homegrown tomatoes and once they were enjoyed it would be the "same old same old" til the end of the season. Now I eagerly await the ripening of each new variety and thoroughly enjoy the challenge of the different characteristics of the heirlooms. Don't get me wrong their are a few, very few, spectacular tasting hybrids like Sungold F1 and Brandy Boy but neither have much in the way of disease tolerance. Most hybrids with high tolerance to diseases and nematodes are very similar and in my opinion not very good eating tomatoes. Of those very tough hybrids I grow only a couple of the better tasting ones for insurance, especially during the fall when planting conditions make it very hard to get many plants to survive.

This past season I grew about 70 different heirlooms and the majority turned out to be not very productive or disease resistant down here although some of the heirlooms equaled or surpassed the better hybrids in production and some showed great disease tolerance. I found a fair number of the heirlooms flavor to be no more appealing than the average hybrid but many were so good I would grow them just to get one bite. I am already excited about the new heirlooms I will be trying next spring but I'm not too thrilled about the TSWV resistant hybrid I will try just to see if it is edible.

[Worth1]

There is nothing wrong with home grown hybrid tomatoes they are much better than store bought shipping tomatoes.

Tomatoes aren't the only thing to fall victim to production and customer expectations.

Radishes potatoes carrots oranges and so on.
I just planted an orange tree called Hamlen, the Texas A-M blog on it says poor skin and juice color but the flavor is great.
I have bought these oranges for years from road side vendors because they are so sweet.

I have always thought store bought oranges taste horrible but the public expects that orangeorange.

I research everything I buy and many fruit and nut trees dont do well for commercial production.
Be it size, color, growth habit or shelf life, but almost never do they consider taste.
But they do just fine in the home orchard or garden where we as mostly tiny little farmers can take the extra care to grow them.

At the store where I shop they have heirloom tomatoes for sale at about $4.00 a pound and some folks do buy them.

One lady commented on the price and looks and I told her not to judge the things before she tried one.

Zapotic was one of the tomatoes they had for sale.

Worth

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by lumierefrere

This is the quote

"Note that those delicious tomatoes are heirloom tomatoes--they are harder to grow (and almost impossible to grow in Texas due to the heat.) Their yields are also much lower (taste is higher!) and they are not disease resistant. In other words--great for the experienced grower in mild climates, not so great in very hot climates. Also you need more space (the plants are generally bigger) because you have to plant more of them to get the yields."

If they pulled that off a website, I'd love to have the address so I can personally debunk it with photos.

I think the problem is, most folks go buy a 6 pack of Brandywine the first week of April, grab a bag of topsoil, dump it out in a low part of their yard that holds water when it rains, and then fertilize from a box of MiracleGro and are shocked when they get poor results.

• 6 pack transplants are too small. Transplants should be 8-10 inches tall.
• Plant tomatoes out the first or second week of March and be prepared to cover in case of cold weather.
• Establish a raised bed garden in a level or high part of the yard with loose, well-drained, nutrient-rich soil. Purchase a garden mix from a commercial supplier or buy bagged garden soil as needed. Topsoil is typically the scrapings off a vacant lot after the land has been cleared for development -- it is nutrient poor.
• Build up your soil with compost and organic material first. Then fertilize with an organic fertilizer appropriate for tomatoes.

Originally Posted by lumierefrere

Yes, Morgan, it's too early to plan for 2013. And thanks for telling me where to send this person for more information if I'm ever contacted.

I only ask because I'm parked in Denmark for the next 2-3 years and then will be in the US *somewhere* at that point.

Originally Posted by lumierefrere

I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with hybrids. They all seem very similar to me. The Pink RazzleDazzle thing in the Park's Catalog is scary! It's the color of Pepto-Bismol.

Barb

Hybrids can't be beat for cherry tomatoes. I can't imagine not having Sun Gold and Sweet Quartz. Jet Star and Momotaro are also excellent. But otherwise, I'm heirloom through and through.