What is a good method for trialing a large number of varieties?

JoeP · February 21, 2012

T-ville,

I have more varieties that I want to try than what I have room for. The last couple of years I grew 40+ plants in cages in my raised beds and a few pots. I'd like to change my plan and "trial" more varieties in the same space. I am not looking to maximize production - just want to see which varieties will do well for me in my climate. I need input on some of the below topics.

Support - I am leaning toward a Florida Weave. Seems like less work than other support methods. True?
Distance - I plan on 2 feet between plants and 3.5 feet between rows. Too close?
Number of Leaders - I assume a single leader would be best for putting the plants closer. I am not looking for production. Just looking for a few ripe fruit.
- Will a single leader skew the results (larger fruit, earlier ripening)? Can you get a accurate impression about productivity with only one leader?
Depth of raised bed - My tomato beds are 2 cinder blocks (16 inches) high and seem to do well for large indeterminates (caged at 3 feet apart on center). If I have overflow into the rest of the garden that is only 1 cinder block (8 inches) high, will the indeterminates do as well? Would they need to be spaced further apart? (My native soil underneath is rather poor, low in nitrogen, calcium, magnesium. Not much grows well for me in native soil except weeds.)

I'd appreciate some feedback and advice.

Thanks,
Joe

johno · February 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeP

T-ville,

I have more varieties that I want to try than what I have room for. The last couple of years I grew 40+ plants in cages in my raised beds and a few pots. I'd like to change my plan and "trial" more varieties in the same space. I am not looking to maximize production - just want to see which varieties will do well for me in my climate. I need input on some of the below topics.

Support - I am leaning toward a Florida Weave. Seems like less work than other support methods. True?
Distance - I plan on 2 feet between plants and 3.5 feet between rows. Too close?
Number of Leaders - I assume a single leader would be best for putting the plants closer. I am not looking for production. Just looking for a few ripe fruit.
- Will a single leader skew the results (larger fruit, earlier ripening)? Can you get a accurate impression about productivity with only one leader?
Depth of raised bed - My tomato beds are 2 cinder blocks (16 inches) high and seem to do well for large indeterminates (caged at 3 feet apart on center). If I have overflow into the rest of the garden that is only 1 cinder block (8 inches) high, will the indeterminates do as well? Would they need to be spaced further apart? (My native soil underneath is rather poor, low in nitrogen, calcium, magnesium. Not much grows well for me in native soil except weeds.)

I'd appreciate some feedback and advice.

Thanks,
Joe

I'm familiar with this dilemma... You're pretty much on the right track, but I have a couple of pointers for you.
1. Florida weave is more work. Stick to the cages since you already have them. The main advantage of Florida Weave over cages is cost, in my experience.
2. You are fine on the distance between rows, but 24" between plants is pretty dense for indeterminates. You need more room for air circulation if not for roots. Can you squeeze it to at least 30"?
3. Your assumptions are correct. Here's my question: Do you plan to prune to single leaders in the future?
4. Again, your assumptions are correct. They should be very happy in 16" raised beds! In the 8" raised beds they should do well also. You might give them an extra couple of inches between plants, or a little extra compost/fertilizer to make up the difference.

Which varieties are you trialing?

**nctomatoman** · February 21, 2012

I did just that last year - trialled 40 varieties in a space that was about 3 feet by 20 feet. I planted the indeterminate varieties in 2 gallon pots, right next to each other, used 4 foot stakes in each pot, pruned to one main stem and topped after 2 clusters set fruit. It worked perfectly and I got representative fruit from each plant and a good amt of seed saved.

This is a pic of what they looked like early in the season

http://nctomatoman.weebly.com/upload...69/9110933.jpg

check the first vid clip my blog entry for a look at things later in the season

http://nctomatoman.weebly.com/1/post...-tomatoes.html

b54red · February 21, 2012

I trialed a large number last year about 2 ft apart but made the horrendous mistake of allowing two stems to develop causing poor airflow and rampant disease. The distance was very adequate and had I kept them to one stem I think they would have done much better with far less disease problems. If you are going to go with the single stem I would go with a trellis which would allow you to guide the single stem allowing it to keep growing if you decide to go with more than a couple of fruit clusters. I've used Florida weave with lightly pruned plants and it works ok; but it seems with a single stem it might be more troublesome. You could also go with stakes which would work well with just the single stem. I am going to plant one of my longer raised beds with plants spaced two feet apart with a row on each side of the 4 ft wide bed and keep them to a single stem tied to my trellis support system. The other beds will have plants with larger spacing and many of the same varieties so I can compare the single stem performance to the multi-stem performance.

Mark0820 · February 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I planted the indeterminate varieties in 2 gallon pots, right next to each other, used 4 foot stakes in each pot, pruned to one main stem and topped after 2 clusters set fruit.

The growth of those plants was quite impressive for a 2 gallon pot. Did the root ball encompass the entire 2 gallon pot by the end of the year?

dustdevil · February 21, 2012

Mark,

The words "occupy", "take up", or "overrun" would probably be suitable choices also.

Boutique Tomatoes · February 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I did just that last year - trialled 40 varieties in a space that was about 3 feet by 20 feet. I planted the indeterminate varieties in 2 gallon pots, right next to each other, used 4 foot stakes in each pot, pruned to one main stem and topped after 2 clusters set fruit. It worked perfectly and I got representative fruit from each plant and a good amt of seed saved.

Perfect! I'd been dreading giving up garden space for trialing some of my Caribbean mystery tomato varieties, but I can easily do a couple plants of each in pots like this along the fence to see what they are this year and collect fresh seed.

Heritage · February 21, 2012

Joe, I grow all of my outdoor tomatoes spaced at one foot in the row, pruned to a single leader, and tied on a single string to overhead support using the tomato clip method. I space the rows 6 feet apart, and this is the minimum I can get by with and still have room to walk down the rows. Staking with strings attached to overhead supports allows me the ability to 'bag' entire plants with row cover for seed saving.

I grow all of my F2's, F3's, etc. spaced at 6" in the row, pruned to a single stem.

I have discovered it is extremely time-consuming to keep an ambitious indeterminate tomato pruned to a single stem.

Steve

Mark0820 · February 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustdevil

Mark,

The words "occupy", "take up", or "overrun" would probably be suitable choices also.

Thanks dustdevil. Those words would be suitable for what I was trying to say.

johno · February 21, 2012

I'm quite impressed at the quality of the plants in your videos, Craig. I have to ask, what is the fertilizing regimen?

**nctomatoman** · February 21, 2012

Hey Johno - for the potting mix, I use a combination of 1 2.5 cu ft bag of Miracle Gro potting mix (not potting soil, the soilless mix) and 1 25 lb bag of composed cow manure. I set the seedlings (which are typically in 4 inch pots and about 6 inches tall when I plant them) into the pots deeply and water really well.....and don't feed them with anything at all until they are about 3 feet tall. At that time, I used the blue stuff (miracle gro plant food, 1 tbsp to gallon) every 2-3 weeks or so - that's it. The main thing is the watering - they are watered deeply each morning, and when it gets really hot, in the evening as well - I water with no nozzle on the hose, full flow - for 15 gal pots I essentially count to 20, for 5 gallon pots I count to 10, for the 2 gallon pots I count to 5 - so until water is coming out the bottom. I've found this reduced blossom end rot nearly completely.

JoeP · February 22, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage

Joe, I grow all of my outdoor tomatoes spaced at one foot in the row, pruned to a single leader, and tied on a single string to overhead support using the tomato clip method.

Steve,

What do you use for the overhead support?
How long are your rows?
By tomato clips, do you mean the plastic clips sold by Johnny's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage

I have discovered it is extremely time-consuming to keep an ambitious indeterminate tomato pruned to a single stem.

How many do you trial?

Thanks,
Joe

JoeP · February 22, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I did just that last year - trialled 40 varieties in a space that was about 3 feet by 20 feet. I planted the indeterminate varieties in 2 gallon pots, right next to each other, used 4 foot stakes in each pot, pruned to one main stem and topped after 2 clusters set fruit. It worked perfectly and I got representative fruit from each plant and a good amt of seed saved.

Craig,

That is a nice setup. I think I might have better results if I could put some pots in the driveway but I think that might be pushing my luck with my better half.

You mention "representative fruit" - but does the single stem, pruning, and topping force the ripening any earlier than normal?

How did he GWR Heart do for you? It was discussed in another thread as a "maybe someday".

I watched the second video as well. I have not considered dwarfs before but after your video, maybe. I have seeds for New Big Dwarf but hadn't considered planting it.

Thank you for linking to the video. Its nice to be able to see what you describe.

Joe

MarinaRussian · February 22, 2012

I've read that some people grow 2 plants per pot, single leader, of course. Works just fine, especially for wispy varieties. Anyone tried that?

janezee · February 22, 2012

This is my new favorite thread. Please continue! It's so interesting!

February 21, 2012	#1
JoeP Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Posts: 97	What is a good method for trialing a large number of varieties? T-ville, I have more varieties that I want to try than what I have room for. The last couple of years I grew 40+ plants in cages in my raised beds and a few pots. I'd like to change my plan and "trial" more varieties in the same space. I am not looking to maximize production - just want to see which varieties will do well for me in my climate. I need input on some of the below topics. Support - I am leaning toward a Florida Weave. Seems like less work than other support methods. True? Distance - I plan on 2 feet between plants and 3.5 feet between rows. Too close? Number of Leaders - I assume a single leader would be best for putting the plants closer. I am not looking for production. Just looking for a few ripe fruit. Will a single leader skew the results (larger fruit, earlier ripening)? Can you get a accurate impression about productivity with only one leader? Depth of raised bed - My tomato beds are 2 cinder blocks (16 inches) high and seem to do well for large indeterminates (caged at 3 feet apart on center). If I have overflow into the rest of the garden that is only 1 cinder block (8 inches) high, will the indeterminates do as well? Would they need to be spaced further apart? (My native soil underneath is rather poor, low in nitrogen, calcium, magnesium. Not much grows well for me in native soil except weeds.) I'd appreciate some feedback and advice. Thanks, Joe

February 21, 2012	#3
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I did just that last year - trialled 40 varieties in a space that was about 3 feet by 20 feet. I planted the indeterminate varieties in 2 gallon pots, right next to each other, used 4 foot stakes in each pot, pruned to one main stem and topped after 2 clusters set fruit. It worked perfectly and I got representative fruit from each plant and a good amt of seed saved. This is a pic of what they looked like early in the season http://nctomatoman.weebly.com/upload...69/9110933.jpg check the first vid clip my blog entry for a look at things later in the season http://nctomatoman.weebly.com/1/post...-tomatoes.html __________________ Craig

February 21, 2012	#10
johno Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arkansas zone 6b Posts: 441	I'm quite impressed at the quality of the plants in your videos, Craig. I have to ask, what is the fertilizing regimen? __________________ You create your own universe as you go along. Winston Churchill

February 21, 2012	#11
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Hey Johno - for the potting mix, I use a combination of 1 2.5 cu ft bag of Miracle Gro potting mix (not potting soil, the soilless mix) and 1 25 lb bag of composed cow manure. I set the seedlings (which are typically in 4 inch pots and about 6 inches tall when I plant them) into the pots deeply and water really well.....and don't feed them with anything at all until they are about 3 feet tall. At that time, I used the blue stuff (miracle gro plant food, 1 tbsp to gallon) every 2-3 weeks or so - that's it. The main thing is the watering - they are watered deeply each morning, and when it gets really hot, in the evening as well - I water with no nozzle on the hose, full flow - for 15 gal pots I essentially count to 20, for 5 gallon pots I count to 10, for the 2 gallon pots I count to 5 - so until water is coming out the bottom. I've found this reduced blossom end rot nearly completely. __________________ Craig

February 21, 2012	#4
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I trialed a large number last year about 2 ft apart but made the horrendous mistake of allowing two stems to develop causing poor airflow and rampant disease. The distance was very adequate and had I kept them to one stem I think they would have done much better with far less disease problems. If you are going to go with the single stem I would go with a trellis which would allow you to guide the single stem allowing it to keep growing if you decide to go with more than a couple of fruit clusters. I've used Florida weave with lightly pruned plants and it works ok; but it seems with a single stem it might be more troublesome. You could also go with stakes which would work well with just the single stem. I am going to plant one of my longer raised beds with plants spaced two feet apart with a row on each side of the 4 ft wide bed and keep them to a single stem tied to my trellis support system. The other beds will have plants with larger spacing and many of the same varieties so I can compare the single stem performance to the multi-stem performance.

February 21, 2012	#6
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,887	Mark, The words "occupy", "take up", or "overrun" would probably be suitable choices also.

February 21, 2012	#8
Heritage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,255	Joe, I grow all of my outdoor tomatoes spaced at one foot in the row, pruned to a single leader, and tied on a single string to overhead support using the tomato clip method. I space the rows 6 feet apart, and this is the minimum I can get by with and still have room to walk down the rows. Staking with strings attached to overhead supports allows me the ability to 'bag' entire plants with row cover for seed saving. I grow all of my F2's, F3's, etc. spaced at 6" in the row, pruned to a single stem. I have discovered it is extremely time-consuming to keep an ambitious indeterminate tomato pruned to a single stem. Steve

February 22, 2012	#14
MarinaRussian Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Russia Posts: 176	I've read that some people grow 2 plants per pot, single leader, of course. Works just fine, especially for wispy varieties. Anyone tried that?

February 22, 2012	#15
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	This is my new favorite thread. Please continue! It's so interesting!