Ernesto & Rinaldo — Tasting Notes

[Grub]

Good Morning,
We just ate an almost 1lb Ernesto for breakfast. I was so looking forward to it. Just sliced on toast and seasoned. As anticipated, the tomato appears to have some hollowness around the outside of the seed cavities. But don't let this put you off.

We let it ripen to a very deep red, though there was evidence of lighter uneven ripening around the shoulders. Ernesto has a meaty centre and comparatively few seeds. Whether a function of its complete ripeness or not, it was exceptionally sweet with a really nice non-acidic lingering tomato taste that was redolent of its freshly bruised RL foliage.

I actually think it's a very different kind of taste and tomato. The sweetness seems to have a real depth to it. I've not had anything quite like it before. I dare say, as Bully theorised in a past thread, that it would be a great tomato for making a sweet sauce or passata.

Seeds are very small, too. And there is a good amount of juice despite the meatiness. I saved about 40 from the cutting board and shoulders. I'm will try this one again next year. Not funky, but an interesting one with real nuances.

Have a great day, Grub

[montanamato]

Sounds good. I can't wait to grow it this summer. I was reading awhile back on Italian tomato varieties and remember a blurb about Italians prefering the tomatoes that keep green shoulders, as they were the sweetest.

Jeanne

[Tania]

Grub,

thank you for posting your notes on Ernesto - now lots of people have a very good reason to look forward to tasting this one! (and thank you bully for distributing the seeds!) Are all the fruits this large, or is it only the first few?

Jeanne - interesting comment on the green shoulders/sweetness - I never thought about it before, but I sure will watch it this summer.

Happy gardening everybody,

[Grub]

Since Ernesto and Rinaldo are brothers I thought I might add something on the latter.

Rinaldo was a nice paste-shape and ripened evenly to a pretty brick red.

After surgery, I noticed some hollowness around the seed cavities but general meatiness all the same. The fruit is dense in the middle.

On the tasting table, or toast as it were, sprinkled with pink seasalt flakes extracted from our Murray River, and freshly ground pepper, Rinaldo had a real sweetness consistent with pastes.

Nothing untoward or overly complex. Just a nice sweet-tasting paste and, in recent weeks, the wispy vine is really starting to range out and produce.

I gave Ernesto 8/10 for its unusual complexity. Rinaldo is a 7/10, which ranks as reliable. Red Brandywine is the benchmark 7.5/10.

So Rinaldo is a very good tomato by my standards. But if I had to choose, Ernesto by a decent margin. - Grub

[bully]

Grub, I agree with your assessments 100%

I would say that at this stage of the game I am more into eating tomatoes than cooking with them. ( I'm not sure where BLT's fall into that)
Fran, who has made tomato sauces of one kind or another for 70 some years, swears that Rinaldo makes the best tasting sauces.

Now I don't want to paint with a broad brush and certainly wouldn't want to stereotype but I have to imagine that 97.698% of all 80 year old Italian women have, let us say a strong opinion of not only what tomato makes the best sauce but also how that sauce should be made..

It would be interesting to taste 10 different sauces all made exactly the same except that they were made from 10 different tomatoes.
I would have assumed that after cooking down and having different ingredients added that they would taste pretty much the same, with exceptions for consistency.

For someone of Fran's background and pallet and how prevalent tomato sauces are in her cooking the 10 sauces would taste as different as Sun Gold to Black Krim.

This speaks to part of my conundrum with regards to rating this tomato, I want to give it a fair shake and it is not unusual for me to hold off on a given variety till I have grown it a second year.
Based on flavor alone, which is how I have always ranked a tomato, I would expect on any given day that I would give it between a 6.5 and an 8.
I am always much more critical near the end of the season and my mood and other factors can come into play.
I remember once at CHOPTAG after gorging myself for the first 30 mins that it became very hard to distinguish between the different varieties. One can cleanse ones pallet but if you keep eating the same thing after that it still is hard to get back where you started in terms of tatse perspective.
I also theorize that eventually the acids in the tomatoes will effect the taste buds and wash/burn/numb away the ability to detect the more subtle flavors.

In terms of sauce making I can't say where the tomato ranks because I don't have the expertise in that genre.

My wife is a Chef and has made and tasted Francesca's sauce and said it is "to die for", unfortunately she said it in front of my Mother who unquestionably (till this point) makes the best sauce in the world. I'll save that story for another time, let's just say I was doing more diplomacy than Henry Kissinger..

So I would hate to give what may be the greatest paste tomato of all time a 7.5 when it deserves a 10 but I don't have the skills in that department to rank it much higher.
To make yet another bad analogy that would be like saying Ian Chappel was a terrible batter because he missed a Roger Clemons fastball yet I never saw him play cricket.

[lumierefrere]

This is a brief comment about sauce. I spent years looking for the ultimate sauce recipe--which meant nagging everyone of Italian descent I ever met anywhere. "What's wrong, doesn't your sauce come good?" one lady asked.

Finally I met someone who came from the tradition and had really thought about it. I followed her directions and now my sauce comes good. ;-)

The most important component is the tomatoes. If you don't have exquisite tomatoes, you're lost because you add almost nothing else. Yes shocking. Maria said onions were very controversial and for her family, no onions. I've come to agree. Tomatoes, a meaty bone sauted in olive oil, garlic. And I add some raisins, I know, very controversial and probably wouldn't need them if I started with better tomatoes. Salt and pepper to taste.

Barb

[Grub]

Anyone go with Ernesto and/or Rinaldo this year?

I enjoyed growing them last year, but haven't got them in this year.

And now I wish I had Ernesto growing.

I think we might need another new project tomato for the forum

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Grub

Anyone go with Ernesto and/or Rinaldo this year?

I was wondering the same thing; if anyone else had comments about either one for '06.

In any case, Ernesto is on my spring grow list for '07 (you enticed me w/your description); have seed but didn't get around to it this year.

[Tomstrees]

I was def. interested after reading about it first over "there", and "here" - but never got
much a follow through ...

I'd be ineterested in growing it though !
I can also add that I've got my "faux Opalka"
and "Tonys Plum" on the "yes list" for 2007 ...
One more pastey wouldn't hurt ~ :wink:

Making a hearty marinara in my family is
a tradition ... every Sunday ...
I just froze my last "home-made" batch
last weekend ... Last night the rest of the
rippened greenies were made into salsa (misses fav.)
It is def. tougher to make marinara with all kinds of heirlooms compared to 1 type ...
so many "taste" variables to deal with ...

~ Tom

[cdntomato]

I am undertaking a canning tomato project with a few farming families in the district. I was also considering an Italian culinary look-see. The comments above are inspiring me to do it.

First question: 'canning' toms for NA are not the same as 'canning' tomatoes for Italians. Bonny Best versus San Marzano. Comments?

Fat Italians? Am finding that these toms, like Ernesto, are much loved for sauces, expecially roasted sauces, my fave. I have quite the list of 'fat Italian' toms to grow next year. Thoughts?

Last adjunct field trial: roma-types and plums and/or pepper-shaped

Have quite a list of these to grow too. Worth looking at them as 'Italian canning types'?

Comments solicited. Willing to list what I have and share what I can with a few others serious about doing parallel tests.

Jennifer, with a back-up plan in place for next year :>)

[ddsack]

I grew Ernesto and Rinaldo this past summer from seeds that Bully very kindly sent me. I loved the story of Francesca and her tomatoes.

Both varieties are whispy leafed, and were weak looking, and spindly as seedlings, very prone to CRUD. It took them much longer than other varieties to establish themselves in their garden spots, though they grew like gangbusters once they did. As a result, they were pretty late in maturity, which would be one reason I probably won't regrow them, at least for a few years.

Ernesto has the strangest shape, I really don't know what to call it. Some are pointed at the bottom like a heart, but then all the lumpy bumpy sides are pepper-like? It is a big tomato, many were over a pound, and the largest came in at 2 lbs. Here are my end of the season pickings:





The flavor was nice, but a little mild for my taste. It did not seem very juicy, and had quite a few empty air gaps. It seemed to have the dense, dryer texture I associate with plum tomatoes, which would make a good sauce tomato.





Rinaldo had a poorer and dryer end spot in a raised bed, but that didn't seem to stop him from growing up past 6 feet tall by summer's end. It produced an adequate number of large plum tomatoes averaging around 6-8 ounces, with the largest over 12 ounces. I'm not really a fan of plum tomatoes, since I'm too lazy to do major canning and preserving which seems the best use for most of them. But if I were, Rinaldo would seem to be a good choice because of the nice size. Here is a pic comparing Polish Linguisa with Rinaldo (on the right).



Polish Linguisa is a big for a plum, and Rinaldo looks even heftier. The PoLi's averaged around 5 oz, with the largest at 7.5 oz, smaller than the Rinaldos with their 6 to 8 oz. average.

In summary, I think these are all interesting tomatoes, worth growing if you plan on using them for cooking. I was especially fond of Ernesto, just because of the different shape, and beautiful coloring. I do think there are better tomatoes for eating fresh, and because they were so late for me, they won't be regulars in my garden, but I may grow them again in a few years.

Dee