Layered Soil

[Andybear]

Would it help to layer the soil in accordance with the plants growth. Ie different nutrients and fertilisers in different layers. So that when the plant grows its roots will then be at the layer which best suits the plants needs? Or is this just a fancy full waste of time.

[casserole]

No
No

[Andybear]

Originally Posted by casserole

No
No

Thanks for the response but why no no

[feldon30]

If you are growing indeterminate tomato varieties, which is most heirlooms, and most good-flavored varieties, then the tomato plants will need all different types of nutrients at the same time.

The plants will continue to put on vegetative growth (leaves and stems), flowers, and produce fruit over the length of the season.

[Darren Abbey]

The boundary between layers will be seen as a barrier to the growing roots.

There might hypothetically be some plants somewhere which expect a layered distribution of nutrients (phosphorous at the surface, calcium deeper, etc...), but garden plants tend to be evolved from weedy plants which grow best in disturbed soil... which would have any such layers homogenized.

[Andybear]

Thanks to all for the reply looks like I wanted to over think the whole process of nutrients and tomato growing. Not good, but now that, thats out of the way let me get on with the job at hand tomato growing.

Thanks

[greyghost]

Wow, what stunning plants you have!! Thanks for taking the time to write
your information-I enjoyed reading it very much. Darlene

[Andybear]

Thank you TheLoneTomatillo what a great read and information a keeper for the gardener. Thanks

[habitat_gardener]

Here's a longer paper that also says add more organic matter and lots of mulch.

Plant roots need a constant supply of all the micronutrients in small amounts, best provided by nutrient-rich organic matter.

http://downloads.smilinggardener.com...ent-Access.pdf

This paper by Roland Bunch was based on work in the tropics, but the principles stated in the conclusion work in temperate areas as well:
1. maximize organic matter production
2. keep the soil covered
3. use zero tillage
4. maximize biodiversity
5. feed the crops largely through the mulch

[Andybear]

Thanks Habitat for the link also a good read on how to enrich your soil and to keep it that way

[docgipe]

Hey there...now listen closely. I'm a Dutch German Roads Scholar seventy six years old. My gardening for more than fifty years has been ninety nine percent organic. The other one percent I lie about or just simply do not talk about. Most of my life I was a backyard gardener working on about a thousand square feet garden area. Nearly all of my soil building has be using organic principles and the method most commonly called permanent mulch.

When I retired my garden three years ago the organic content was by test seventeen percent. The worm count was high...very high and all known elements were in nice ballance.
That garden is growing some twice a week cut lawn grass now. All that I garden now is in pots and tubs. I maintain far more compost than I need but there is literally no place where a little more compost would not improve the area.

I too am somewhat of a hot dog or garden nut. I like to grow big stuff and tinker with unusual seldom seen plants....now in the house and around a large patio.

The only advise I consistently give is to suggest any gardener purchase a paperback under ten bucks titled simply: Let It Rot. It is available on line. When one gets the hang and basic understanding of this book no other book is of much value.

Attached is an image of my tomato insanity this year. We were eating them by July 4th when the plant was approaching nine feet. It is now over nine feet and still growing. I fed it weekly weakly liquid fish oil, kelp and compost tea. The growing medium is garden soil, compost and pro-mix. Pro mix is Canadian Peat with Mycorrihizae.

[friedgreen51]

Thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy and informative post. I read all of it and it confirms for me even more the importance or organic matter. Some impressive tomatoes.

[docgipe]

Originally Posted by TheLoneTomatillo

Botany major chiming in here, in a nutshell there are 13 essential soil-borne nutrients, and although some are more closely associated with certain plant processes than others, they are all needed in relatively similar amounts throughout the life of the plant. True, soil will naturally form layers. But this is not necessarily in benefit to the growing plant. The Gardener is best to "adjust" this process a bit, namely increase the depth of one's topsoil to as deep as practically possible.

The best thing you can do for your garden plants is turn a lot of organic matter into your ground, as deeply as you can. Go easy on material like bark or wood chips which are slow to break down and will tie up soil nitrogen in the meanwhile before they do. Be creative if you must, in your quest for organic matter. I myself have succumbed on occasion to loading leave bags from curb-sides into the back of my chrysler mini-van to haul home and dump on the garden spot.

Very nice response!

I like to use harvested plant material, like grass clippings. Leaf litter is great if you have a source for that, and I have personally used copious quantities of pine needles with good results, having taken care to add pulverized lime (avail at feedmills/farmer co-ops, best prices avail, you can get 50lb bags at reasonable prices). The lime helping raise the PH a bit, to help offset the potential acidity of the pine needles.

If you use the grass clippings though, beware if treated with broadleaf lawnkiller. I accidentally poisoned some of my own ground with a huge-★★★ pile of grass clippings that I had picked up along a curbside for free. It was a *lot of clippings and it really messed up that spot for a while, did not garden on it for 3 yrs after a failed season in that area, left it to fallow until I could see the weeds doing well again.

What you really want is to create an earthworm farm - generally if night crawlers will thrive, your tomatoes will be in great shape. Add some lime to your spot, at the rate of about 5 lbs per 100sq foot, a ten by ten area. This is not so much to offset Blossom End Rot, which is rarely caused by a soil-borne deficiency of calcium, but rather a calcium deficiency created in the fruit by fluctuations in soil moisture. Vast majority of Blossom End Rot is in fact caused by this phenomenon - and therefore the addition of calcium will be useless in preventing Blossom End Rot. I can get anyone scientific literature on this, PM me. This information has been avail to plant scientists for decades.

One of the best ways to maintain moisture in your ground, yet still have plenty of Oxygen the plant roots need (above ground parts take in CO2 but plant roots need Oxygen) is by adding organic material. You are accomplishing with the addition of easily broken down organic matter more than just the addition of nutrients - afterall the basic nutrients can be provided by other means, like they are in active hydroponic systems where the plants are provided their 13 nutrients in solution.

All the essential nutrients are also basic elements and researchers have taught us decades ago that in order to be absorbed by plant roots, the essential nutrients must at first be in basic elemental form; i.e. Phosphorus is Phosphorus at a basic elemental level, it cannot be broken down further.

In its basic elemental form, Phosphorus - or any of the essential nutrients (which are all basic elements) - are the same, whether it originating from a decomposed oak leaf, animal manure, or a quarry where it was mined. It makes no difference how the plant grows where the element originated.

In a nutshell, all the nutrients must be in basic form for the plant to use it, and in solute - that is, dissolved in water.

Many of you avid gardeners in the forum are familiar with humus, the sticky black dirt associated with compost piles and the smell of healthy, musty soil. Humus not only contains lots of plant nutrients. It has approx ten times the cation exchange-rate over clay particles, which are quite high themselves. Particles with high cation exchange-rates allow more sites for nutrients to bind, as they do in soil from electrical charges, like the ones that knit the stuff of life together, through atomic bonds, etc. Having a high cation exchange rate helps "store" soil nutrients, aids in resisting leaching action - the rinsing of nutrients through the soil.

It also increases content of healthy soil bacteria and saprophytic fungi, which form an important symbiotic relationship between plant roots and bacteria and fungi in the soil, vastly increasing the surface area root feeding ability.

Here is a pic of my plants, Better Boys.

I live in Northern Michigan, and these pics were from July 12th, 2 days ago. I use huge amounts of green manure; that is, in the form of grass clippings, but in con★★★★★★★★ with granular fertilizer. How much you add of the granular is dependent on your grow conditions, esp how much summer sun your garden gets. Remember, any additional soil enrichment can result in spindly growth, provided the other growth parameters are not met. I have full sun here, and get an early start to get them this big, something I do as a hobby, akin to growing pumpkins for competition. It's not just about the tomatoes which I love, but it's fun to grow huge plants.

[docgipe]

Anyone pushing eight to ten feet of tomato plant has a good handle on soil building and ballanced all other elements. Very nice indeed.

[docgipe]

[QUOTE=TheLoneTomatillo;292257]Let it Rot, by Stu Campbell!!

I grew up the son of a Dutch German daddy. He was truely 100% organic. His garden for four of us was about 3000 sq. ft. Thus I had little question if any desire over my fifty plus years to use products in my gardens that took away from the very goodness I needed
to build better soil. Yes we speak a similar language on gardening. Wish you lived just down the road aways.