Flavor: Earlies or Lates in Cold Climates?

[greggf]

Which taste better when grown in cool climate areas: well-grown early-ripening varieties which, although shy of the best flavor, mature at the peak of summer and warmth, or the better-tasting later varieties which, unfortunately, ripen after the weather has started to go downhill and have an edge knocked off their innate superiority?

More often than not, I find September tomatoes pretty hideous, even without a killing frost completely ending the show. I'd almost rather have a ripe Aug. 1st Early Pick than a ripe Sept. 15th Brandywine, most seasons.

I'm especially interested in what montanamato and other cool season growers think about this..............

=gregg=

[where_with_all]

I grew both types this year

Momotaro- ripened around August 1st

Brandywine- ripened around last week (September)

The flavor of brandywine is MUCH better than Momo.

I think there are ways to get the late season varieties to come in a little earlier. If that is the case my vote will always be for the later seasons. I am going to start a new thread on this one!!

My Marianna's Peace was funny. I got a bunch of tomatoes early. Then nothing until last week. Last year it was an end of August tomato.

Based on my tastings--I just don't think the early season tomatos are worth the work. DOn't get me wrong -the momos taste good- better than anything you could buy, But I would rather harvest sungold and some good paste tomatos in July and August and wait till the end of August for a good brandywine.

[montanamato]

Gregg, My climate is more extreme, than cold. My biggest challenge is finding plants that set fruit in daytime highs often mid nineties and nights in the high 40's. High winds and humidity about 6%, are my other challenges. This summer had night highs 15-18 degrees higher than usual.
I think the key is a variety of plant types ,if space isn't a concern. No 2 seasons are ever the same, thus the varieties rarely perform the same year to year. My emphasis is on cooking and canning tomatoes...I know, any tomato can(and has by me) be made into sauce, etc. I cook a lot of meals for a large family, crew, and often for high profile guests...I much prefer to cook with paste tomatoes, thus that is my emphasis and production....I do like the juicy, sweeter slicers too, but just need a few for fresh eating, most don't keep on the counter long enough for me....
If your emphasis is for fresh eating, I would try to extend your season a bit , as decsribed in the above post.
Some years I notice huge taste/texture changes about now, and other years the tomatoes seem fine into October. Unfortunately, I just had the first ripe toms from Dwarf Stone and Earlibell(misnomer). They were both awful and mealy already.
I don't mind growing lots of early types as I don't go to town often enough to buy tomatoes, and some years that is all that ripens on the plant. Our season can end so abruptly, that I like determinates for many reasons. I can do my canning over a shorter time span, the smaller, denser plants offer more protection against sunscald, hail, grasshoppers, and often , even frost. Luckily for me, a lot of the Italian toms tolerate my weather.
I would still plant a mix of earlies and main seasons if I were you....
Standouts this year were Victoria and County Agent, which both set some fruit mid August and then came back bigtime, with lots of great tasting toms. I have plants of Early Rouge, Dubok, and Aker's Plum Pink absolutely loaded....most will ripen on the counters after this weekend....

Jeanne

[greggf]

Thanks y'all!

Six years out of seven in our current location we've had radical changes in tomato fruit quality starting Labor Day. We live two miles down the road from the Boonville NOAA cooperative station, and they have the coldest daytime and nighttime average temps in New York State other than Saranac Lake in the heart of the Adirondack Mountains. Plus it's straight uphill to our house from that weather station, and we run 2 to 3 degrees cooler than they do, according to my car thermometer.

We're cloudier than most of the rest of the state or the northeast. Lake effect cloud cover affects us 12 months a year, not just in the winter. We get fewer days of sunshine per year than anywhere other than the Pacific Northwest, which, of course, is much warmer than here, and with a much longer growing season. Even Ithaca or Albany or Massena or Ogdensburg get more sunny days, since they're farther from Lake Ontario. It's a very local thing, as is our 200+ inches of snow a winter.

Just today, it was cloudy at the weather station, then I drove up into a cloudbank to our house, where it was drizzling. This is common, and this has a profound effect upon not just tomatoes, but on gardening and flowers in general.

All of which makes this forum a frustrating thing, as people talk about Aunt Gertie's Gold and Carbon, Persimmon and Lillian's Yellow Heirloom!!

=gregg=

[feldon30]

Sounds like time to move.

[greggf]

But not to Houston, I think, when it comes to tomatoes?

How about Ohio? Indiana? Southeastern Pennsylvania?

=gregg=

[feldon30]

Yeah Houston is rough. Although I'm gonna give it my best shot next year. Some people open presents Christmas morning -- I'll be opening tomato seed packets and sowing. Hope to have gargantuan (16-20") transplants in 1 gallon pots by Feb 28th for planting out.

I had 6 transplants of that size when I planted them out August 15th. Now they're 3-5 feet tall.

[greggf]

I hope you'll be opening some presents, too!

Here are photos of our tomato patch:





=gregg fedchak=

[tjg911]

Oh gregg that snow looks so nice and the distant mountains, and no leaves on the trees! I love winter! It looks like connecticut but ny is so much prettier if you stay away from LI and the city.

It does sound like you need to move tho to grow tomatoes. Here in CT the summers, I think we have, are near perfect. We get plenty of sun and heat but unlike the south no serious heat that kills plants or shuts them down. Soil problems for me anyway are not an issue like down in the southern states and I mean NC not just the deep south. Of course those southern states start months before me so perhaps they have 2 seasons? Go farther north and the summers are just a tad too cool and short with frost and cold nights cutting off the last few weeks of the season I get here.

There is no doubt by late september tho the tomatoes are done. The flavor changes that occur with less than 12 hour days, and a very weak sun with the sun so low in the sky, nights down in the 30's or at best 40's, days sometimes only in the 50-60 range and frost by 10/1 to 10/15 ends the season.

tom

[spyfferoni]

Jeanne,
What paste types do the best for you? Have you found varieties that are less prone to BER than others? I canned my first ever batch of salsa Tues, and now I am hooked! It was my first time ever canning by myself(I vaguely remember helping my mom can when I was little). I grew San Marzano last year and it did great for me. I tried Viva Italia this year and it is awful, BER on almost every tomato.
Have you tried San Marzano Redorta or Nano? I have some seeds for Andes Horn and Rio Grande, that I want to try next year and I want to try some more of the Italian types for canning. My best slicer last year was Polish. This year I lost a lot of plants in June, and ended up buying some Early Goliath from Wal-mart to fill up the empty places. It has been my best producer, and is a decent slicer. My Nepal, Moscow, and Red Brandywine are producing OK, but the fruits are a lot smaller than I expected, most are smaller than a baseball. Have you tried Yellow Bell? I also have some seeds for that I want to try. The temps dropped yesterday, so I don't know many more ripe toms I'll get. I'm hoping to get enough to do another 12 pints of salsa.
I have extreme weather here too. I don't think our winters are as harsh though, and our nights aren't quite as cool as yours.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Tyffanie

[montanamato]

Tyfannie, Best ever paste for me has been Hungarian Italian paste. This is the first year in 4 that I don't have it...I won't make that mistake again. It is a bit late, maybe 80 days, but comes in when I am canning and can wait on the counter...It out produces any hybrid hands down...never had any BER.
This year I liked Ropreco paste, earlier than many pastes, and pretty good for fresh eating and salsa too. Most fruits were pretty small however (think large cherry), and it did have some BER issues. Still, I will grow it again. Also grew Rio Fuego this year...bigger fruit, no BER and good yield. My Mama Leone went down to insects, but I am planning on trying it again next year. Also growing 10 Fingers of Naples, Bisignano #2, Ernesto, Rinaldo, San Marzano 2, and Doucets Plum Red next year.
If you like pink paste, I am growing Akers Plum pink too...Just ripening now(plant pulled today, so will ripen in garage), but was planted out last few days of June. There is probably 130 small plum shaped toms on one plant. I will plant it out early next year with the main ones.
I grew regular San Marzano years ago, and I need to see if San Marzaon 2 is op or hybrid. I got it from Seeds from Italy and know nothing about it...

Jeanne

[greggf]

Paste and hearts are the hardest things to grow where we are, due to BER.

I'm thinking there's more of a weather and climate cause of BER than anything else (although I know that there are multiple possible causes) since when we lived in a deep valley just 6 miles away from our current location, growing nice paste tomatoes was no problem. There was no BER of any kind on any variety.

I wonder what the "easiest" or most reliable pastes are, especially for harsh climates?

=gregg=

[spyfferoni]

I agree with the climate/moisture theory on BER, but I also know from experience that some varieties are much more prone to BER, I learned this year it goes for chili peppers as well. I grew 4 different kinds of peppers and the only ones with a BER problem were my Anahiem peppers, and we are talking nearly every chili pepper---they were prolific, but many of them unusable. I had many tomato varieties this year have some BER problems, I think the heat wave we had stressed the plants out. I usually watered every other day during the hot spells, but next year I want to try soaker hoses and see if that helps. Interesting though, that not one of my Kimberly fruits had BER. It is an "early" variety, but it didn't mind the heat, and I liked the taste of it a lot. I haven't tried Kotlas or Stupice yet, but would like to see how they compare to Kimberly. My San Marzano paste tomatoes last year had very little BER, and were early and produced up until frost. It is hard to know how much space to use trying different paste types, when I want to try out soooo many other tomatoes as well. Gourmet Seeds International (Harvest Moon Farms) has a good selection of paste types. Their packages come with 500-1000 seeds of most varieties. I thought that was extremely generous. I may order a few new types this winter. I still want to try Hiedi too. It is supposed to do good in drought/heat and not as suceptible to BER. So many tomatoes and so little space...and time.

Tyffanie