Diatomaceous Earth as a seed starting medium

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Rockporter

Thanks Ray, when you say true leaves what do you mean when it is squash or say lettuce? I know that I need at least four leaves for a tomato plant but I don't know about the rest of it.

Squash or Lettuce are dicots, same thing as tomatoes, true leaves emerge in pairs.
Wait for the second set of true leaves to emerge and then think of fertilizing very mildly with your MG. The cotyledons supply all the nutrients the seedling needs until the roots have matured enough to be able to take up nutrients from the water in the medium. Fertilizing too early with a synthetic can damage the young roots, you want healthy white roots, not dead brown roots.

[livinonfaith]

Levent, just wanted to say your photos are just incredible.

I perk up every time I see your purple flower avatar!

[Rockporter]

Originally Posted by Rockporter

My reseeding on 2/10/13 is doing very well, I took photos but the camera won't display them so back to the drawing board tomorrow. I have about 11 different types of tomato(I think) and squash, lettuces and peppers. All seem to be peeking through and most are already quite large. It is amazing how well this DE works, but I am finding that I have to add water daily since they are so large now.

I also need to start giving the water some nutrients for the plants but do not know how much to give. I could use a gallon jug if needed but I wouldn't use all the water at once and I don't know if I should have treated water sitting around since the potency might be gone? I suppose I could feed my other plants in the garden with it but I don't think they would like it too much if I fed them daily.

Please let me know how diluted I should make the water for the seedlings in the DE. I have a 20 ounce sprayer bottle that I would like to use.

Thanks for the ideas in advance.



UPDATE:

The photos below were taken on Feb 18, 2013 and you can see the seedlings all look very healthy. I started the seeds on Feb 10 2013 and the germination was fast. All of the squashes, lettuces, and some of the various tomatoes popped within 24 hours. I am still amazed how well DE works, the tallest is a squash about 4" tall and the smallest is my four Fred's Tye Die F5 that I planted 4 of the seed I saved from my F4 growout, I got 100% germination, those are just about 1" tall.

Before I filled the tray with DE I lined each square with a cotton squares I bought at Walmart in the makeup section. this held the DE in place. I filled then shook the tray to flatness and lifted it, if there was DE coming out the bottom I emptied the square and reset the cotton squares. I am hoping that by lining with this cotton square that I might get lucky and have better results when removing the seedlings for planting out.

I didn't realize I was editing my post so I am bumping it here with new photos attached here as well as the other post. Sorry for any confusion this might cause, I just wanted you to see the pics in an update.

[b54red]

I don't have a hard and fast rule about adding a bit of fertilizer to the water but I know with DE you need to do it sooner than with other seeding mediums I have used. I generally give them about two weeks after they emerge and then use a very dilute dose of MG to the watering tray. Since I use egg cartons for starting seed I will have different sizes and sometimes even a few seed that are just breaking ground when I start fertilizing. I have had no problems except when I didn't start giving them a bit of fertilizer soon enough. I am giving them a dose no greater than 1/4 of the recommended until they get potted up into larger containers. I tried a couple of organic liquid fertilizers but had terrible algae growth so I'm sticking to the Miracle Grow for now. A big problem with the algae growth on the surface is that you can't tell when they need watering because the color doesn't change. I have to reach in and disturb the surface so I can see how dry the DE is under the green algae. I nearly lost some of my peppers planted in December because I thought the DE was wet and barely watered them in time. So if you get an algae covering over the surface make sure to check under it to determine if they need water.

[RayR]

Rockporter, how close are you keeping those seedlings to the lights? They look like a little leggy from the pics.

[zeroma]

Originally Posted by b54red

I don't have a hard and fast rule about adding a bit of fertilizer to the water but I know with DE you need to do it sooner than with other seeding mediums I have used. I generally give them about two weeks after they emerge and then use a very dilute dose of MG to the watering tray. Since I use egg cartons for starting seed I will have different sizes and sometimes even a few seed that are just breaking ground when I start fertilizing. I have had no problems except when I didn't start giving them a bit of fertilizer soon enough. I am giving them a dose no greater than 1/4 of the recommended until they get potted up into larger containers. I tried a couple of organic liquid fertilizers but had terrible algae growth so I'm sticking to the Miracle Grow for now. A big problem with the algae growth on the surface is that you can't tell when they need watering because the color doesn't change. I have to reach in and disturb the surface so I can see how dry the DE is under the green algae. I nearly lost some of my peppers planted in December because I thought the DE was wet and barely watered them in time. So if you get an algae covering over the surface make sure to check under it to determine if they need water.

Thanks for yet another great tip on the fertilizer amounts and MG vs organic liquids.

What about mixing it and keeping it in a 1 gallon milk container, will that work? Or does some of the potency go away when it just sits mixed up and ready to use? Another poster asked, and I don't know if anyone answered that question.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by b54red

I don't have a hard and fast rule about adding a bit of fertilizer to the water but I know with DE you need to do it sooner than with other seeding mediums I have used. I generally give them about two weeks after they emerge and then use a very dilute dose of MG to the watering tray. Since I use egg cartons for starting seed I will have different sizes and sometimes even a few seed that are just breaking ground when I start fertilizing. I have had no problems except when I didn't start giving them a bit of fertilizer soon enough. I am giving them a dose no greater than 1/4 of the recommended until they get potted up into larger containers. I tried a couple of organic liquid fertilizers but had terrible algae growth so I'm sticking to the Miracle Grow for now. A big problem with the algae growth on the surface is that you can't tell when they need watering because the color doesn't change. I have to reach in and disturb the surface so I can see how dry the DE is under the green algae. I nearly lost some of my peppers planted in December because I thought the DE was wet and barely watered them in time. So if you get an algae covering over the surface make sure to check under it to determine if they need water.

I haven't used egg cartons but I guess it is because there is less volume of medium holding water that they dry out faster.
Because the DE wicks water so well, the moisture is pretty consistently distributed through the medium, so if it is dry at the top then you can bet it is almost just as dry deeper down.
Also as the seedlings grow, there is more water loss through leaf transpiration as well as evaporation from the medium.

[Rockporter]

Originally Posted by RayR

Rockporter, how close are you keeping those seedlings to the lights? They look like a little leggy from the pics.

The instructions for the light I bought is to keep them 6-24 inches from the tops so I am keeping them about 5" actually. That light fixture is 20,000 Lumens in a 24" square setup so it is really strong. Those plants came out like gang busters when I seeded them and straight up they all shot.

I didn't get the fixture hung up before I seeded because the one I ordered came damaged and I had to wait on another so I had to reseed everything. The seedlings were up about three days before I got the light on them.

I have the fixture on a set of easy up/down light hangers so all I have to do is lift it up out of the way so I can work on the tray and then just pull it back down over the tray. the fixture weighs 24 lbs.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by RayR

I haven't used egg cartons but I guess it is because there is less volume of medium holding water that they dry out faster.
Because the DE wicks water so well, the moisture is pretty consistently distributed through the medium, so if it is dry at the top then you can bet it is almost just as dry deeper down.
Also as the seedlings grow, there is more water loss through leaf transpiration as well as evaporation from the medium.

I absolutely love the egg cartons. The frequent drying out and watering is probably one of the reasons I have had no damping off problems with tomatoes this year. I also like how easy it is to scoop out the seedlings and the moist DE with a regular teaspoon when potting up to larger cups and potting soil.

I tried using larger cups for starting bean seed but did not like how long it took to bottom water them and when watering from above the DE is too easily disturbed before it is held in place by a good root ball. I am going to try starting my beans in the egg cartons and as soon as they sprout moisten the DE and move to larger cups with potting soil. I don't know how this will work or even if it will work but I won't know til I try. My favorite bean is Maxibel but the last two batches of seed have had no more than 40% germination so I thought instead of starting so many in larger cups I would try this instead. I started my fall beans in cups and they did good but I wasted so much space with all of the cups that had no germination. When I sow them directly in the garden I have so many gaps that it is really frustrating. I loved just transplanting them 6 or 7 inches apart and having nice rows with no gaps.

Bill

[RayR]

Originally Posted by b54red

I absolutely love the egg cartons. The frequent drying out and watering is probably one of the reasons I have had no damping off problems with tomatoes this year. I also like how easy it is to scoop out the seedlings and the moist DE with a regular teaspoon when potting up to larger cups and potting soil.

I tried using larger cups for starting bean seed but did not like how long it took to bottom water them and when watering from above the DE is too easily disturbed before it is held in place by a good root ball. I am going to try starting my beans in the egg cartons and as soon as they sprout moisten the DE and move to larger cups with potting soil. I don't know how this will work or even if it will work but I won't know til I try. My favorite bean is Maxibel but the last two batches of seed have had no more than 40% germination so I thought instead of starting so many in larger cups I would try this instead. I started my fall beans in cups and they did good but I wasted so much space with all of the cups that had no germination. When I sow them directly in the garden I have so many gaps that it is really frustrating. I loved just transplanting them 6 or 7 inches apart and having nice rows with no gaps.

Bill

I hear ya on the bean seeds, I just pre-sprout beans and peas, that way I know which ones are dead. I usually just direct seed the strongest sprouts in the garden, I get pretty even rows that way too.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by RayR

I hear ya on the bean seeds, I just pre-sprout beans and peas, that way I know which ones are dead. I usually just direct seed the strongest sprouts in the garden, I get pretty even rows that way too.

I'm afraid to directly transplant the bean sprouts in the garden because I need an early start because of the early relentless heat we get; but when I put them in the garden too early I invariably get a late frost which sets me back even further.

Bill

[Delerium]

Very pleased with the DE results.

[Father'sDaughter]

The first of the eggplant seeds I started in DE sprouted in less than six days! These were seeds I saved myself for the first time and I was really unsure about whether they would even sprout.

What I'm really loving about it is that It's so much easier to work with than seed starting mix. I use a Dixie cup to fill the pot right from the bag, put the pots in a tray and bottom water until the DE changes color to let me know it's wet. Then I drop in the seed, use the Dixie cup to sprinkle on a top layer of DE, make sure it soaks up enough water, put some plastic over them, and I'm done with no mess in my kitchen to clean up!

[Levent]

Litchi tomato (Solanum sisymbriifolium) seedlings are still under lights.I plan to transfer them to final subirrigation pots next week.I'll keep them in garage till the night temp. is above 10 C.

[Levent]

An experimental/fun project, S. lycopersicum 'Micro Tom' in a 800 cc plastic cup without holes.I had planted it to this final mini subirrigation pot just 2 weeks ago, 10cm tall mini dwarf tomato plant has recently budded under lights.Through the transparent side walls it's possible to examine how the tomato roots penetrate into the medium.