the great brandywine sudduth production controversy

[Gimme3]

I think Fusion is onto some Truth, but theres more to it, yet to understand.

In 2004, i grafted Brandywine onto Maxifort, an what Fusion is saying...is true. These plants blew my mind, having struggled with BW's the 2 years preceding. In '04, i was givin away basket loads of Beautiful BW's. An these grafted plants did not slow down, thruout the Whole Summer.

In 2005, seekin to do even better, i tried a new way to graft, that didnt work well, for me (decapitation of rootstock)....so i was unable to duplicate the '04 results. This spring, i never had time, to get back into it. Hopefully, Spring 07 will be calm enough to try an reproduce the BW results i have seen w/my own two eyes, in '04.

I have personally seen several grafted BW's yield easily...50 nice fruits, each. The idea that a larger root system can supply the plant w/more nutrition....dovetails...w/what Fusion is saying, and it Totally makes sense...here...))) When those plants started settin fruit, they set clusters...2 an 3 on a stem, an showed no inhibition on any flowering stems.

[michael johnson]

The only problem with that-is that you cant realy save the seeds from grafted tomatoes, as the rootstock alters the genes slightly, and any resulting seeds would not be true Brandywine.

But on the other hand if it produces as realy good crop of tomatoes of good flavour- its worth the extra trouble.

[amideutch]

Puregood T, I grew out Brandywine Sudduth from Victoryseeds and it was as far as I can tell the "real deal".Had good production up to August when we got hit with 25 days rain in August when everything went to hay. Suprising thing was after the rains it picked up again and started blooming and setting more tomatoes. Unfortunately the cold weather set in before they could ripen. As far as the other Vendors Feldon mentioned I can't say but maybe he can!
Ami

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by Gimme3

In 2004, i grafted Brandywine onto Maxifort, an what Fusion is saying...is true. These plants blew my mind, having struggled with BW's the 2 years preceding. In '04, i was givin away basket loads of Beautiful BW's. An these grafted plants did not slow down, thruout the Whole Summer.

I have personally seen several grafted BW's yield easily...50 nice fruits, each. The idea that a larger root system can supply the plant w/more nutrition....

Ok, I thought Maxifort and grafting was all about Fusarium, etc.. Now you've got my attention. Did you post any how-to threads here on TV about how to graft and where to get maxifort?

I see that Hydro-Gardens.com has Maxifort seeds.

Have you looked at the How To at UConn? Any comments?

Has the unique aroma of Sungold prepared me for the putrescence of Maxifort?

[Vince]

Well,

I grew brandywine(unknown) for the first time this year and I thought it produced very well compared to other folks posts. I probably got between 10-15 fruits from each of my 7 plants. From reading so many posts about getting 1-4 or nothing at all I thought I did pretty good. But, now that I am reading people reporting 50-100 fruit per plant, I think I must have had a pretty bad year. I live in SoCal inland so it is blazing hot here in the summer and we really onlty get 1.5 months max (mid april to june 1st for most of the toms to set a load of fruit. And then if they survive the 100+temps from mid July-August they may set a few more in the fall. But Out of my BW plants I had 1, which shined with regards to production. It put out at least thirty and has 4 more dangling from its vine as we speak. I saved a lot of seeds from this mamma as she seemed to set fruit relativley easily in the high temps. I should harvest these 4 1lb+ Brandywines in December some time. Next year I will grow out 10 plants fro my saved seed and see if they produce as well. Moreover I will grow 5 each BW suddith and E Faux and see how they compare. Good luck with your gardens everyone.

Vince.

[feldon30]

Vince, Hopefully the month of 100's was a fluke and won't repeat next year.

The 5 BW Sudduth's and 5 Earl's Faux side-by-side sounds like a fantastic test. Need any volunteers for taste testing?

[Gimme3]

First off...the original Question refers to Brandywine Suddith.

I can not truly address....the specivity...as i have never sewed seed, from the Suddith species/select strain.

I have grown Bw's...my seeds originate from Baker Creek.

Many questions...regarding grafting, but i muddied the water jus a little, on this thread, an i'd rather see it run clear.I'd rather...see the water get muddy again, by accounts of Suddith vs. Common BW. Yall tell me...what is the difference ?

No way to answer grafting questions in this thread, without possibly steering...a Great Question...AWAY...from the proper responses...The Question...deserves.

If the thread author will agree to no-holds barred inputs that relate...i can respond. An if not...i surely understand...)))

I Do Believe, however...that what Fusion said...is Truth, rarely found....)))

[Grub]

My Brandywine Sudduth is looking unreal this year. This is from saved seeds from an overwintered plant from three-years ago that gave me about 12 fruits.

This year, she's so strong, flowering, sooo promising. Time will tell if she let's me down. She's growing in her own between-the-beds hole of aged homegrown compost and loving it.

If you could see her you would be in love. I am.

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by Gimme3

Many questions...regarding grafting, but i muddied the water jus a little, on this thread, an i'd rather see it run clear.I'd rather...see the water get muddy again, by accounts of Suddith vs. Common BW. Yall tell me...what is the difference ?

Brandywine Sudduth's (can we please get the name right?) is the pink Brandywine that dates back to 1885 the turn of the century. Brandywine is the complete name of the tomato -- the Sudduth's is optional. Ben Quisenberry discovered that Mrs. Doris Sudduth Hill had the "original" which is known for it's tremendous flavor, so that is why "Sudduth's" or "Sudduth's strain" and sometimes the "Quisenberry strain" is added to the end, to indicate that it's the real deal.

History at SeedSavers.org

Sort of like Mortgage Lifter. There are several out there but Carolyn has given her seal of approval to the Estler's strain. I don't have seeds for that strain just yet. But as I am up to seeds for 90 varieties I think I'm good for now.

Red Brandywine dates back to the Amish in the late 19th century is claimed to date back to 1885 and grown by Amish farmers.

OTV Brandywine is an unintentional cross of Yellow Brandywine and another tomato and was named and released by Carolyn Male and Craig LeHoullier.

Brandywine Demystified by Craig LeHoullier

There are lots of supposed Brandywines out there both from commercial seed and from SSE listings which are not the "real thing" because of crossing or mislabeled seeds or even misrepresentation.

If you want the real thing, buy seeds for Brandywine Sudduth's.

Now back to this grafting stuff. That's interesting. Brandywine has been hashed to death.

I have only talked to one person who has had great success growing BW in the Houston area and that's fliptx and I was incredibly fortunate to meet her and get a generous donation of 2 tomatoes.

Photos

We had a cooler than usual spring this year in Houston and if I had prepared my soil properly and planted good-sized transplants of Brandywine at the right time, I might have had similar results. But who knows what future years will bring.

Grafting sounds very interesting as a shortcut.[/b]

[Vince]

Feldon,
the real question is what is very good results from BW.Are 5-10 or 50-100 toms a good season? What was the yield that fliptx got? Very few if any of my toms have ever yielded 100 toms, except for cherries. I was very satisfied with 10-15 BWs per plant but I would love a greter yield!

Vince.

[Mantis]

I have never had green shouldered fruit like the one in Feldons photo. Mine have always been pink all over with no signs of the green stuff.
Oh well. Mine might not be right but they will do me.

[greggf]

My Brandywine Sudduth from Johnny's and the SSE have had green shoulders, but not as pronounced as Feldon's. Might be climate-related as to how pronounced the greenery is.

Production has always been great. Nearly as many fruit as the popular hybrids. And we get enough that ripen. The problem is that they don't usually develop a good taste, or any taste at all. I like mild-ish, but geez.

An Early Pick tastes better, year after year.

As an aside, I'd kill to walk into Feldon's photograph and sample his Cherokee Purple.....................

=gregg=

[feldon30]

Carolyn has also pointed out that those are some heavy-duty green shoulders and she has not seen quite that severe. It sure didn't affect the taste.

Note that there is no way to confirm that this is in fact the Sudduth's strain of Brandywine. It's from a seedling purchased at a nicer local nursery.

I think 20-30 lbs of fruit is very good production for a tomato plant, but of course any such estimates or numbers being thrown out there is fraught with challenges. I would be thrilled to get a dozen tomatoes out of a Brandywine because of our growing conditions. I believe fliptx got 15-20 tomatoes off 1 plant so I would consider that a fantastic result in Houston. I saved lots of seed so I will probably try it next year.

That Cherokee Purple completely knocked my socks off. No salt, no pepper, no mayo. Had no idea tomatoes could taste like that.

[Gimme3]

I HAVE...seen green shoulders on a BW, like your pics demonstrate, Feldon. and i sure understand...the ferocity of your questions. Houston has Got to BE...a Tough place, to get it Right in, for a BW.

A BW grown in Southern heat, fruiting, ...into...Southern heat, will absolutely have green shoulders, when it's time to pick it.

the reason why...is this...the Plant takes Forever, to ripen fruits, an by the time it does...it has become...Foilage-challenged...quite often. If you think about it...a BW exhibits a plan. it decides how many branches it's gonna throw out, in order to cover....X amount of fruit.If it loses those canopy-fullfilling branches, due to heat or disease, it will NOT...go back, an re-try, in time enough, for us to see a difference. NEVER...prune..a BW.Diseases and natural dislike for Heat, extreme Heat coupled w/ Humidity, discourage the Plant, from feelin Good. Fusion aint lyin,...in the South...do ALL you Can...to make a BW wanna ROOOLLL at the very best speed it can do, Early ON ...)))

If one waits...in the South, for a BW to lose it's green shoulders, quite often, it will have soft spots already appearing in it's full body. It all has to do....with the FACT...that a BW was not borne from...southern Heat/Humidity.

a BW can be grown...in the South...Wonderfully,....but it takes very good and constant attention, towards minimizing the conditions that reduce it's desire. Thats why i say, once again...Fusion aint lyin, an thats why...i try an tell Southern Growers, to plant them...a runnin pole Lima, beside a Tomato....to be there an Shade it...in the hot July...thats comin...)))

[feldon30]

I had to explain to my roommates when they asked "Wait, it's still green at the top, that's not ripe" I said "gently push the side with your thumb. Trust me, it's ripe. This tomato harkens back to a time before tomatoes were genetically selected and grown in a laboratory so they are perfectly red, round, ripe flavorless cannonballs."

Introducing people to these other tomato varieties makes people re-think misconceptions about tomatoes. Educate! Educate! Educate!