the great brandywine sudduth production controversy - Page 4

dcarch · November 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldon27

I had to explain to my roommates when they asked "Wait, it's still green at the top, that's not ripe" ---------------------
Introducing people to these other tomato varieties makes people re-think misconceptions about tomatoes. Educate! Educate! Educate!

Apparently squirrels are smarter.

dcarch :wink:

Mantis · November 16, 2006

OK OK, I have just never seen the green shoulders in mine OK.

travis · November 16, 2006

While I agree that Brandywine is a wonderful tomato, I'm afraid there is no proof that Brandywine Sudduth dates circa 1885 or that Red Brandywine was grown by the Amish in the 19th Century.

So, I think we should be satisfied to grow the best Brandywines we can lay hands on and share seeds from the most prolific ... and leave mythology to the Greeks.

PV

elkwc36 · November 16, 2006

I find all the theories interesting. I have tried several different strains including the Sudduth's this year and put them out as early as April 10th and still no real luck. Now one plant did have several green ones on when frost hit that set after it turned cool. We have had such a short period between the last freeze and when temperatures have hit mid 90's or higher the last few years I contribute a lot to that. I plant sweet corn on the south side for shade and have other big tomato types that do real well and produce 30 pounds or more. I fertilize heavy so don't think that is a problem. The plants get huge just don't set fruit well. Glad others do better in their areas. JD

Grub · November 16, 2006

Quote:

I fertilize heavy so don't think that is a problem. The plants get huge just don't set fruit well.

Hmmmm.

barkeater · November 16, 2006

My favorite, 3 years straight,, is the "Walmart" strain packed by Ferry Morse. ;-)

Tomstrees · November 16, 2006

Bark -

Seriously ?

~ Tom

barkeater · November 16, 2006

Seriously!

Maybe it is Sudduth strain; maybe there isn't any difference, period, between so-called "strains".

I've seen enough difference year over year with hybrids, let alone heirlooms, to discount any "superior" strain to a result of the vagaries of weather. Unless these "special" strains have been consistent for over 10 years or more before being "released" as a new and improved, I'd take the claim with a grain of salt.

greggf · November 16, 2006

Barkeater is correct!! And a genius!!

What he just said in the post before is the single most-true, single biggest, single most-important thing that I've ever read either here or else at "the other place."

I, too, have noticed and decided the same things. Right down to the variable nature of even hybrids.

It probably does get down to climate from year to year, BUT I suspect that more is involved, such as shoddy quality control at seed companies, in the fields, in our home gardens as we seed save, and so on.

=gregg=

Tomstrees · November 17, 2006

Ferry Morse is who I use for my herbs and
other veggies ... to think they've got it right ...
Super big, commercial company no less ...
cool guys cool ~

Tom

Mantis · November 17, 2006

Heres one of mine from last season. Got to say , I am happy with this strain whatever it is

michael johnson · November 17, 2006

It seems to me that the only real improvement that Brandywine needs to make it better, is to cross it with a variety that produces realy strong -good rooting system.

Just as a matter of interest- has anyone ever tried a cross between the two types of Brandywine- Brandywine sudduth type-and Brandywine Red Landis valley type, that should produce some interesting results.

But the fact remains the problem seems to be with the rather weak rooting system in the sudduth types, because as soon as its grafted onto Maxifort root stock-it romps away and pumps out fruit.

Does anyone know of a realy good tomato simular to Brandywine that has a very strong rooting system and resistant to deseases, that could be used for this purpose and create a brand new robust Brandywine.

travis · November 17, 2006

I would like to see a discussion regarding saving seeds from the Brandywine grafted to Maxifort root stock.

Michael alleges that saved seeds would have genes from the root stock ... or that the root stock "alters" the genes somehow. Is this true?

If so, is there a chance that the Maxifort-influenced genes might become expressed in hardier root systems?

Has anyone planted saved seed from a tomato, whether Brandywine or another, grafted to Maxifort root stock?

If it would be more appropriate to discuss this in another thread, maybe a moderator can move it. But I think the discussion remains "productivity" either way.

PV

Tormato · November 17, 2006

Brandywine doesn't have a strong root system?

Just for fun, I planted one extra Brandywine among hills of Petit Gris de Rennes melons. I didn't water this patch at all. I just left it to the rain. When I ripped the plant out after the frost, I found the roots had extended two beds over, where I watered frequently. Those 10 foot long roots took quite a pulling to get them out.

Could watering further from the plant help?

Gary

travis · November 17, 2006

How well did that particular plant produce, Gary?

PV

November 16, 2006	#52
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	Bark - Seriously ? ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

November 17, 2006	#55
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	Ferry Morse is who I use for my herbs and other veggies ... to think they've got it right ... Super big, commercial company no less ... cool guys cool ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

November 16, 2006	#47
Mantis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oz Posts: 1,241	OK OK, I have just never seen the green shoulders in mine OK.

November 16, 2006	#48
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	While I agree that Brandywine is a wonderful tomato, I'm afraid there is no proof that Brandywine Sudduth dates circa 1885 or that Red Brandywine was grown by the Amish in the 19th Century. So, I think we should be satisfied to grow the best Brandywines we can lay hands on and share seeds from the most prolific ... and leave mythology to the Greeks. PV

November 16, 2006	#49
elkwc36 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: SW Kansas Posts: 339	I find all the theories interesting. I have tried several different strains including the Sudduth's this year and put them out as early as April 10th and still no real luck. Now one plant did have several green ones on when frost hit that set after it turned cool. We have had such a short period between the last freeze and when temperatures have hit mid 90's or higher the last few years I contribute a lot to that. I plant sweet corn on the south side for shade and have other big tomato types that do real well and produce 30 pounds or more. I fertilize heavy so don't think that is a problem. The plants get huge just don't set fruit well. Glad others do better in their areas. JD

November 16, 2006	#51
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	My favorite, 3 years straight,, is the "Walmart" strain packed by Ferry Morse. ;-)

November 16, 2006	#54
greggf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Boonville, NY Posts: 419	Barkeater is correct!! And a genius!! What he just said in the post before is the single most-true, single biggest, single most-important thing that I've ever read either here or else at "the other place." I, too, have noticed and decided the same things. Right down to the variable nature of even hybrids. It probably does get down to climate from year to year, BUT I suspect that more is involved, such as shoddy quality control at seed companies, in the fields, in our home gardens as we seed save, and so on. =gregg=

November 17, 2006	#57
michael johnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK. Posts: 960	It seems to me that the only real improvement that Brandywine needs to make it better, is to cross it with a variety that produces realy strong -good rooting system. Just as a matter of interest- has anyone ever tried a cross between the two types of Brandywine- Brandywine sudduth type-and Brandywine Red Landis valley type, that should produce some interesting results. But the fact remains the problem seems to be with the rather weak rooting system in the sudduth types, because as soon as its grafted onto Maxifort root stock-it romps away and pumps out fruit. Does anyone know of a realy good tomato simular to Brandywine that has a very strong rooting system and resistant to deseases, that could be used for this purpose and create a brand new robust Brandywine.

November 17, 2006	#59
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,971	Brandywine doesn't have a strong root system? Just for fun, I planted one extra Brandywine among hills of Petit Gris de Rennes melons. I didn't water this patch at all. I just left it to the rain. When I ripped the plant out after the frost, I found the roots had extended two beds over, where I watered frequently. Those 10 foot long roots took quite a pulling to get them out. Could watering further from the plant help? Gary