Can You "Isolate" a variety without "Bagging&

[travis]

Nor',

One of SSE's 2006 publications showed some pepper plants, I believe it was, growing inside long, rectangular, screened cubicle row covers. They were built from wooden frames boxed wide enough to contain the plants comfortably and tall enough to allow growing space and air circulation. The entire enclosure was sized so that two people could easily handle it and lift it onto or off the pepper bushes planted in a standard row culture.

If I remember correctly, the article went into some detail of their construction. I think it was hardwood framing covered with synthetic screen porch type wire fabric. I'll check on it Tuesday when I go back to work as the publication is at my office.

For tomatoes, you could enclose each plant in a wire tower made from concrete reinforcement wire and cover the entire cage with a shade cloth sleave or "pillow case." There is shade cloth available that allows 70% sunlight to pass through. Some products also are woven so they allow ample air circulation.

I suppose you could construct the sleave from screen fabric as well.

You could prune the plants from which you intend to save seeds to control their size within the wire cages and cover the entire cage and plant just for that period of time when the flower trusses you have tagged for seed harvest threaten to bloom and until the tiny fruit have set. Be sure to snip off any advanced blossoms before you net the cage or tardy blossoms after you remove the net ... I'm talkin' about blossoms within the tagged flower trusses you have targeted for saving.

Were there's a will, there's certainly a way.

If I find any pictures or plans, I'll add a link in this message as a later edit. Keep an eye out.

PV

[Tania]

folks,

do you know how effective bumble bees wrt cross-pollinating tomatoes? vs. sweat bees?

[Tania]

I think I found the answer to my own question

http://www.xerces.org/Pollinator_Ins...ative_Bees.PDF

[bcday]

Isolation cages at SSE's Heritage Farm:
http://home.earthlink.net/~garygarli...SEIsoCages.jpg

To keep halictid bees out, you need very fine mesh such as that used for pantyhose or tulle favor bags. The mesh size of cheesecloth and nylon netting is way too big. Halictid bees are TINY (and determined -- I've watched them crawl all over the bags on my plants, looking for a way in).

[Noreaster]

Found a 1999 foraging study of Bumblebees (known to be very effective pollinators) done in UK using attached radar devices in a farming area. (click link below).

THIS info combined with all the bees and other flying insects that are drawn to my heirloom/o.p. flowers is what convinces us that only bagging (or perhaps SSE netting devices if practical to use) will work to insure the outcome to 100% of what we start with !

Of course,trusting the legitimacy of the seed you BEGAN with as to producing the exact properties of the variety defined can be subject of another discussion !

Noreaster

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...ournalCode=jpe

[carolyn137]

nor,

Just a couple of points here.

First, different pollinators are attracted to different flowers and veggies, so having pollinators around doesn't mean that they will X pollinates this or that.

Tomato blossoms have no nectar so the pollen itslef as a protein food source is the goal of those pollinators that are most frequent re those blossoms whose pollen hasn't fertilized all the ovules in the tomato ovary, which is most of the time.

Even though a blossom may be perfect, meaning it has both male and female reproductivre structures, there are widely differing X pollination rates that can occur.

For instance, with tomatoes it can range from 0 up to maybe about 30% depending on all the variables that have been discussed.

But for most peppers it can go as high as about 70%. And that's one reason I stopped listing pepper varieties at SSE b'c I was growing so much at the time that I couldn't bag the peppers and no way could I build isolation cages for them.

Carolyn

[Tania]

I have seen references to the facts that the rate of X-pollenization in tomatoes is a function of stigma length or something; and if the stigma is exserted, the variety is most likely to be X-pollinated by bumble or halictid bees...

But if the stigmas are not exserted, does this mean that even if a bumble bee visits the flower, it will not be X-pollinated? Or does this mean it still might be, but in range of only 1-2%?