The fate of Moreton Hybrid UNsealed LOL

[Mischka]

I just got off the telephone with Mark at Harris and I am sad to report that the variety Moreton Hybrid has been indeed discontinued forever with no chance of return.

I was really hoping they would resurrect this simple F1 two-parent cross. He informed me that the cost of subcontracting the seed production from Seminis, Sygenta or Harris-Moran would be cost-prohibitive in relation to the recent lack of demand.

I posed the question of a possibility of getting seed produced and dropping it as a Harris exclusive and instead offering it to the other seed houses, in order to recoup the money invested.

His response: "We wouldn't be able to sell the 30 lb. minimum that our seed producers require. Most of the other seed retailers are much smaller and we'd still be looking at a 15 year supply of seed at the end of the selling season."

I mentioned that there are smaller seed producers out there and even offered to grow 100 plants of each parent and do the hand-pollinating myself. He agreed that there are smaller "fly-by-night" seed producers but that he didn't trust the quality of their output.

He also politely declined my offer.

In further conversation, he explained how one of the parents was lost back in the early 90's and that they were unable to offer Moreton for a few years. When they "found" one of the parents and resumed seed production, the demand had already dropped off since most people that were fond of Moreton had already found some other variety to take it's place.

I asked if he knew what OP variety parents that Moreton is derived from, but he wouldn't tell me...even though they aren't going to ever sell it again.

He also said that over 80% of their Jet Star and Supersonic F1 seed is purchased by commercial plug growers and that they the ones that set the demand for most varieties that are hybridized nowadays. If market demand shrinks for those two, they would also likely be discontinued.

If anything, this is a lesson in the benefits of growing heirloom/OP varieties. We're not at the mercy of the big multi-national seed producers who seem intent on dictating what we grow in our gardens.

If any of you would be interested in dehybridizing Moreton Hybrid or have seeds you don't plan on growing, please let me know.

[nctomatoman]

Mischka, very interesting - I actually just delved a bit into dehybridizing it.....grew the hybrid three years ago, and two years ago grew out two of the F2. Both were quite productive, medium sized, slightly oblate red tomatoes with fair, not great flavor. But, I have quite a lot of saved seed from the hybrid - so if anyone wants to play around with it, let me know. I can send the F2 seed I saved, or F3 from the two F2s I grew out. I suspect I will not return to them.

[carolyn137]

Since they stopped listing it a few years ago I kind of thought that it was gone with the wind.

And it's kind of sad b'c the last time I talked to Mark he was of the opinion that Moreton Hybrid, Jet Star and Supersonic were the three best tasting hybrids they listed, even though they were three of the first hybridized and offered by Harris.

I'm in no physical shape to do any serious dehybridizing, but I do have packs of Moreton Hybrid, Jet Star and Supersonic Mischka, if you know of anyone serious about dehybridizing them other than Craig who already has started. I don't remember how many seeds were left in those packs which I had gotten b/c my brother asked me to grow plants for him, and I did.

[sirtanon]

Boy, I wish I had more land to garden on!

While I've never grown Moreton, I have heard a lot about it and it's two "sisters" that Carolyn mentions, and I'm intrigued to both try it, and grow it out.

At the very least, I would be willing to try a couple F2s and an F1 each year, for comparison.

....so, basically.. if nobody else chimes in to say they want to get in on the dehybridization, please count me in! I would definitely need some of the F1 seed to use as a benchmark, and some F2 too.. even some F3.

If there are any other takers who are better equipped to do this, then I'll take the back seat

[carolyn137]

....so, basically.. if nobody else chimes in to say they want to get in on the dehybridization, please count me in! I would definitely need some of the F1 seed to use as a benchmark, and some F2 too.. even some F3.

*****

I assume you're talking about just Moreton Hybrid since the other two are readily available.

Yes?

If so, if no one else answers I'll see how many seeds of MH I have, if I can find them.

I don't know what Craig might have re MH as to F1 seeds and saved F2 seeds, so I'll let him also answer.

[cdntomato]

Dibs and pretty please, if possible.

Jennifer

[mdvpc]

M-amazing that they have no interest in producing the hybrid anymore, but still wont give info about the parents. I never heard of this hybrid before, but now, of course, I want to grow it. I will probably look for seed somewhere tonight unless the fever leaves me. Strange how this stuff works.

[nctomatoman]

Maybe I will dampen the enthusiasm a bit - I first grew Moreton in the late 1980s in my hybrid vs heirloom competition and it produced a resounding zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

However, location is everything - perhaps it didn't like my PA garden. A few years ago I purchased it again, grew it again, and again, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

But I did save seeds. A few people now have the F2 seed, and seed from two of the F2s I grew out (F3 seed). I think I am about out of the F1 seed. I do have some F2 and F3. In all cases, it was a medium sized undistinguished red tomato!

[sirtanon]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

Maybe I will dampen the enthusiasm a bit - I first grew Moreton in the late 1980s in my hybrid vs heirloom competition and it produced a resounding zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

However, location is everything - perhaps it didn't like my PA garden. A few years ago I purchased it again, grew it again, and again, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

But I did save seeds. A few people now have the F2 seed, and seed from two of the F2s I grew out (F3 seed). I think I am about out of the F1 seed. I do have some F2 and F3. In all cases, it was a medium sized undistinguished red tomato!

Nevertheless, I would wager that it still merits a reasonable growout.. even if only to maintain the legacy in some form. Or better yet, to see if the legacy can produce some special offspring

If you're willing to share some of those F2 and F3 seeds, I'd wager you'd get a fair few takers here, myself included.

[sirtanon]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

....so, basically.. if nobody else chimes in to say they want to get in on the dehybridization, please count me in! I would definitely need some of the F1 seed to use as a benchmark, and some F2 too.. even some F3.

*****

I assume you're talking about just Moreton Hybrid since the other two are readily available.

Yes?

That I am, Carolyn.. that I am. Don't get me wrong, the other two sound interesting as well, but I think at this point they still have a relative lifespan compared to Moreton.

If so, if no one else answers I'll see how many seeds of MH I have, if I can find them.

I don't know what Craig might have re MH as to F1 seeds and saved F2 seeds, so I'll let him also answer.

Looks like Craig's F1 stock is fairly low.. so if you've got F1's and are willing to disperse them, I think that would be great!

[carolyn137]

I'll take a look sometime this week and see if I can find that pack of F1 Moreton Hybrid seeds, and if so it's Sir and Jen who are interested.

Craig, I'm sorry that MH didn't perform for you. I have a strong feeling that JEt Star and Supersonic may have some of the parentage of MH/

Mark Willetts at Harris, the person Mischka talked to re his first post here has told me that MH, Jet Star and Supersonic , although all bred many years ago, he still thinks are the best, taste and production wise, that they offer. And all three are the best tasting hybrids that I've ever grown/

And the summer I grew all three for my brother they performed and tasted just wonderfully.

Since I've got Ramapo dehybridized and out there to others, and would like to do the same for MH but can't, I'm glad that a couple of you want to take it on.

With Ramapo F1 I found it was invaluable to have F1 plants when I planted out the F2 saved seed b'c it made selection so much easier rather than relying on memory since I also knew Ramapo F1 from years ago..

[cdntomato]

How about this, Carolyn:

Since I'm already in your back 40 (give or take), I'll grow out some of Craig's selections and the F1 for benchmark (think I have 6 or so F1 seeds already but need to check) and then bring them (the fruits) down for you to sample and to be part of the next round of selection. As a hybrid Moreton has been near and dear so you should have an active role in saving its life and preserving its legacy accurately. And you should have dibs on first offer of the stable OP through SSE.

Jennifer, who will also come armed with other yummy stuff, since you will need pampering and spoiling after yet another operation

[nctomatoman]

Going into the mail tonight to both Jennifer and Eric - the last of my Moreton F1 seeds (4 seeds for each of you!), packets of about 20 seeds of saved F2 seed from the hybrid fruit, and seed from fruits from the two F2s I grew out - hence both F3 seed. Both were indeterminate, produced slightly oblate, smooth, medium sized red fruit with pretty good flavor - they looked quite similar to each other, as well as the hybrid.

So, you two, and Alan, will be the three keepers/explorers of Moreton and offspring! Please keep us up to date on what you find!

[cdntomato]

Thanks hugely, Craig. Hope that amongst us we can duplicate the F1 in an OP form!!!

Jennifer

[carolyn137]

I just have not had time to look for those MH seeds but now that I see Craig has sent both Eric and Jennifer a few F1 seeds each I'm not going to go crazy looking for them right now. Know that you two have some backup F1 seeds out in the back room.

If I had just four seeds I'd sow two of the F1's with the hope of getting 1-2 F1 plants, b'c all you need is one F1 plant to save your own F2 seeds.

And at the same time sow some of Craig's F2 seeds so you can use that same F1 plant/fruits to help you make selections from Craig's F2's.

Jennifer, MH isn't that near and dear to my heart as are Jet Star and Supersonic and actually my fave Harris variety was StarPak but that's another story ( I had Harris Moran almost convinced to send me the parents) and it's out of productions as well.

But based on taste and performance of all four mentioned in the above paragraph I think there are shared parents, although fruit traits and plant habits are slightly different and Jet Star for sure is known for being low acid, which doesn't bother me one bit.