Is my soil too HOT? - Page 2

feldon30 · April 30, 2014

I'm rather disappointed that nobody has helped you with the math on the fertilizer numbers.

Pounds Per Acre
Phosphorus 424
Sulfur 234
Calcium 5604
Magnesium 1253
Potassium 617
Nitrogen 1360

Divide by 43,560 (sq ft per acre) and we get...

Pounds Per Square Foot
Phosphorus .0097 lbs
Sulfur .0054 lbs
Calcium .1287 lbs
Magnesium .0288 lbs
Potassium .0142 lbs
Nitrogen .0312 lbs

A 4 lb bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer would contain:

Phosphorous .4 lbs
Potassium .4 lbs
Nitrogen .4 lbs

So, I'm not seeing this dire problem with your fertilizer numbers. If anything, I think you've got a decent background level but will still need to fertilize. Remember, the main reason people add manure is not for N-P-K but for micronutrients and soil tilth (loosening up the soil). Personally, I've never felt there was such a thing as too much horse, cow, sheep, etc. manure as long as it's composted. Now, if you use the same type of manure year after year, then you can get a salt build up, but that's why you rotate other materials in as they become available.

I think your biggest concern might be pH which you can immediately test by buying a pH meter at your local feed store or local nursery. There are measures (some say drastic) you can take to bring the pH down.

ddsack · April 30, 2014

I wish I had some of that manure pile! I had horses for many years and tilled in both finished and dried manure clumps and straw bedding into my hard clay soil. Everything grew well, yes there were weeds, but weeds are everywhere anyway. Since the horses died off, I've had to pay to have rotted cow manure trucked in via big dump truck. This farmer has various long distance semi hauling jobs as well, so is really hard to set up a purchase and delivery time. My pile lasts me about two years for two garden sites, plus I use some in containers as well. I am about out, and not sure I can get a supply before planting time, even though I have almost a month. I try to have a compost pile, but that has nowhere enough compost for my needs. Sure miss the horse manure -- but not the work of keeping horses!

oldasrocks · April 30, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldon30

I'm rather disappointed that nobody has helped you with the math on the fertilizer numbers.

Pounds Per Acre
Phosphorus 424
Sulfur 234
Calcium 5604
Magnesium 1253
Potassium 617
Nitrogen 1360

Divide by 43,560 (sq ft per acre) and we get...

Pounds Per Square Foot
Phosphorus .0097 lbs
Sulfur .0054 lbs
Calcium .1287 lbs
Magnesium .0288 lbs
Potassium .0142 lbs
Nitrogen .0312 lbs

A 4 lb bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer would contain:

Phosphorous .4 lbs
Potassium .4 lbs
Nitrogen .4 lbs

So, I'm not seeing this dire problem with your fertilizer numbers. If anything, I think you've got a decent background level but will still need to fertilize. Remember, the main reason people add manure is not for N-P-K but for micronutrients and soil tilth (loosening up the soil). Personally, I've never felt there was such a thing as too much horse, cow, sheep, etc. manure as long as it's composted. Now, if you use the same type of manure year after year, then you can get a salt build up, but that's why you rotate other materials in as they become available.

I think your biggest concern might be pH which you can immediately test by buying a pH meter at your local feed store or local nursery. There are measures (some say drastic) you can take to bring the pH down.

You think I need more nitrogen etc? I was told I was over the top on most everything and would probably burn it all up for a couple yrs.

We have a large compost pile I've been scared to add to anything. Probably has 500 egg shells, tons of banana peels, assorted fruit skins plus all other kitchen scraps

I have used "drastic" measures to lower the PH. Aluminum Sulfate. I'm down to 6.8 average but it may drop lower as I added some sulfur as well.

Thank You, I now have hope.

feldon30 · April 30, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldasrocks

I was told I was over the top on most everything and would probably burn it all up for a couple yrs.

Told by whom?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldasrocks

We have a large compost pile I've been scared to add to anything. Probably has 500 egg shells, tons of banana peels, assorted fruit skins plus all other kitchen scraps

Compost is the same deal. If you just want nutrients, you can scatter 13-13-13 in chemical form. Compost gives you a lot more than that as far as soil looseness, beneficial microbes, and encourages earthworms which are great free labor.

oldasrocks · April 30, 2014

Told by the Ag service where I ordered the soil samples. Told also I'd have tons of growth on some stuff but very little if an fruits like tomatoes.

Tracydr · April 30, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug9345

The worms are a good sign. I think you may be able to unamend small areas as Red Baron suggested. It just like you would do with poor soil mixing in compost, but in reverse.

I filled my raised beds with older horse manure one year, 12" deep. Had the best tomato plants that I've ever had. A few aphids from the high nitrogen but tons of tomatoes, too.

Tracydr · April 30, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldon30

I'm rather disappointed that nobody has helped you with the math on the fertilizer numbers.

Pounds Per Acre
Phosphorus 424
Sulfur 234
Calcium 5604
Magnesium 1253
Potassium 617
Nitrogen 1360

Divide by 43,560 (sq ft per acre) and we get...

Pounds Per Square Foot
Phosphorus .0097 lbs
Sulfur .0054 lbs
Calcium .1287 lbs
Magnesium .0288 lbs
Potassium .0142 lbs
Nitrogen .0312 lbs

A 4 lb bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer would contain:

Phosphorous .4 lbs
Potassium .4 lbs
Nitrogen .4 lbs

So, I'm not seeing this dire problem with your fertilizer numbers. If anything, I think you've got a decent background level but will still need to fertilize. Remember, the main reason people add manure is not for N-P-K but for micronutrients and soil tilth (loosening up the soil). Personally, I've never felt there was such a thing as too much horse, cow, sheep, etc. manure as long as it's composted. Now, if you use the same type of manure year after year, then you can get a salt build up, but that's why you rotate other materials in as they become available.

I think your biggest concern might be pH which you can immediately test by buying a pH meter at your local feed store or local nursery. There are measures (some say drastic) you can take to bring the pH down.

Is there anything that brings PH down quickly? I have very high pH in my beds and the one with cowpeas doesn't seem all that happy. I'm thinking it may be the bagged steer manure but I know my native soil is very alkaline,too.

oldasrocks · May 1, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Is there anything that brings PH down quickly? I have very high pH in my beds and the one with cowpeas doesn't seem all that happy. I'm thinking it may be the bagged steer manure but I know my native soil is very alkaline,too.

I used aluminum sulfate which bring it down instantly. I'm not sure if you can use it in an area already planted. Sulfur works too but takes several weeks. Maybe work in some peat moss as it 4.5?

Redbaron · May 2, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldasrocks

Told by the Ag service where I ordered the soil samples. Told also I'd have tons of growth on some stuff but very little if an fruits like tomatoes.

There are still ag services that don't quite have the whole humus adsorbs nutrients and releases them as needed thing down pat yet. They often base recommendations on guidelines for commercial farmers. Manure and other organic ferts don't necessarily react exactly the same. They are more forgiving. If you have a functioning soil food web they will take care of the nitrogen.

That's why I always try and use a good inoculate. Last year I used X-treme and it did good on most things. This year trying MycoGrow on the recommendation of members in this forum.

Companion planting Basil will help too.

Tracydr · May 3, 2014

Basil is a pretty heavy feeder. But, I really don't see pure, composted horse manure as a problem.
The only problem I've ever had is when my manure is too fresh. Then, it actually works well in cooler temps to warm the plants but reactivated in the heat to cause issues. By heat, I mean we were having 115 degree days, a real heat wave even for AZ.

oldasrocks · May 3, 2014

My tomato plants are turning white. Too wet or too hot?

April 30, 2014	#16
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	I'm rather disappointed that nobody has helped you with the math on the fertilizer numbers. Pounds Per Acre Phosphorus 424 Sulfur 234 Calcium 5604 Magnesium 1253 Potassium 617 Nitrogen 1360 Divide by 43,560 (sq ft per acre) and we get... Pounds Per Square Foot Phosphorus .0097 lbs Sulfur .0054 lbs Calcium .1287 lbs Magnesium .0288 lbs Potassium .0142 lbs Nitrogen .0312 lbs A 4 lb bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer would contain: Phosphorous .4 lbs Potassium .4 lbs Nitrogen .4 lbs So, I'm not seeing this dire problem with your fertilizer numbers. If anything, I think you've got a decent background level but will still need to fertilize. Remember, the main reason people add manure is not for N-P-K but for micronutrients and soil tilth (loosening up the soil). Personally, I've never felt there was such a thing as too much horse, cow, sheep, etc. manure as long as it's composted. Now, if you use the same type of manure year after year, then you can get a salt build up, but that's why you rotate other materials in as they become available. I think your biggest concern might be pH which you can immediately test by buying a pH meter at your local feed store or local nursery. There are measures (some say drastic) you can take to bring the pH down. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

April 30, 2014	#17
ddsack Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3 Posts: 3,231	I wish I had some of that manure pile! I had horses for many years and tilled in both finished and dried manure clumps and straw bedding into my hard clay soil. Everything grew well, yes there were weeds, but weeds are everywhere anyway. Since the horses died off, I've had to pay to have rotted cow manure trucked in via big dump truck. This farmer has various long distance semi hauling jobs as well, so is really hard to set up a purchase and delivery time. My pile lasts me about two years for two garden sites, plus I use some in containers as well. I am about out, and not sure I can get a supply before planting time, even though I have almost a month. I try to have a compost pile, but that has nowhere enough compost for my needs. Sure miss the horse manure -- but not the work of keeping horses! __________________ Dee **************

April 30, 2014	#20
oldasrocks Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lebanon, Mo Posts: 59	Told by the Ag service where I ordered the soil samples. Told also I'd have tons of growth on some stuff but very little if an fruits like tomatoes.

May 3, 2014	#25
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	Basil is a pretty heavy feeder. But, I really don't see pure, composted horse manure as a problem. The only problem I've ever had is when my manure is too fresh. Then, it actually works well in cooler temps to warm the plants but reactivated in the heat to cause issues. By heat, I mean we were having 115 degree days, a real heat wave even for AZ.