Tiny maggots

[cippoli]

I have been fermenting seeds for over 40 years always had good results
This is the first year that tiny maggots are mixed in with the seeds that are fermenting.
Does anyone else have this happen to them?
And where they come from, anyone know what they are?

Fred

[Labradors2]

I had that problem for the first time this year too and, in my case, they were fruit fly maggots! I had seen a few fruit flies buzzing around my ripening tomatoes and I'm fermenting rather a lot of seeds this year. I had company staying for two weeks and didn't inspect the seeds every day, and when I looked, I thought they had sprouted, but on closer examination, it turned out that they were drowned lavae. Gross! I tossed the lot!

Linda

[carolyn137]

I saw the same question posted elsewhere, and here is a cut and paste of my answer<

(When ferentations are set up all kinds of stuff can get in,it's the fungi and bacteria we want for a good fermentation but almost any kind of flies can land and lay eggs, leading to maggots, the larvae.

No, it doesn't help to put cheesecloth or anything else over the fermentation container b/c then spores, which you want, can adhere to that, etc.

We're gardeners. We can take removing the hornworms and stomping on them, we can take squishing the orange eggs of Colorado Potato Beetles on the undersides of leaves, for yes, we are gardeners, and we aren't intimidated by maggots.

After I process the seeds and dump them on a plate to dry, I tip the plate to remove most of the water, which the maggots need to live, and sit there and spend some quality time watching them die. ( wink) Nope, I don't do that but they will shrivel up and die.)

Carolyn

[Tracydr]

Carolyn! I've never heard you being so cruel!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Carolyn! I've never heard you being so cruel!

PLease read again what I posted.

(After I process the seeds and dump them on a plate to dry, I tip the plate to remove most of the water, which the maggots need to live, and sit there and spend some quality time watching them die. ( wink) Nope, I don't do that but they will shrivel up and die.)

As in I let them shrivel up and die, and no,I don't sit there and watch that happen, it just does happen.

Carolyn

[cippoli]

I did rinse the seeds under a high pressure hose spout using a sieve, dumped them on a pie tin and picked out the little buggers
My question is are the seeds good will they germinate next year?
They have a reddish color , not the nice yellow I'm use to.
Or should I start over?

[epsilon]

I decapitate grasshoppers with my shears. Because the mantis' that I have crawling around in the garden don't seem to know what to do with them. I am a gardener and I like my veggies without holes.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by cippoli

I did rinse the seeds under a high pressure hose spout using a sieve, dumped them on a pie tin and picked out the little buggers
My question is are the seeds good will they germinate next year?
They have a reddish color , not the nice yellow I'm use to.
Or should I start over?

If they have a reddish color it means that the fermentation was not complete and bits of tomato tissue are still adhered.

Two choices as I see it.

If you have other fermentations going, when they get to completion keep the juices after removing the seeds and add it to your red seeds and that might help complete the fermentation.

Or, ahem,start over again.

But before you do either of the above please consider testing those seeds to see how well they do germinate, and that b'c there's still quite a few folks who do not process seeds at all, and the germination is just fine.

When I first joined SSE I'd be sent such seeds on TP,paper towels, you name it, and they germinated.

One time I was sent whole fruits and wanted to see if I could get that varietiy going ASAP for that summer. I took the seeds directly from the fruits and sowed the seeds and got 100% germination.

That variety was Sara's Galapagos.

I'm not sugggesting doing that b'c I still think fermentation is best since it can remove several pathogens adhered to the seed coat, and can remove the germination inhibitor found in the seed capsule,which makes for nicer seeds, but the germination inhibitor is onlyof use to protect seeds in fruits that fall to the gound and stay there over thewinter, and then when conditions are OK for germination they germinate and that's how we get volunteer plants.

Carolyn

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by cippoli

I have been fermenting seeds for over 40 years always had good results
This is the first year that tiny maggots are mixed in with the seeds that are fermenting.
Does anyone else have this happen to them?
And where they come from, anyone know what they are?

Fred

I've had the tiny critters -- what I believe are from fruit flies -- what I do might not work -- or might not be needed -- in some climates and fermenting environments -- and would probably be too much trouble for anyone processing very large quantities of seeds -- but I process several dozen small batches of seeds most years -- so what I do might give some ideas to those trying to deal with fruit flies and fermentation.

To deal with tiny maggots: If tiny maggots are present after fermentation I don't throw the seeds out -- just rinse the seeds well which gets rid of nearly all of the not-seeds fermentation material. Then, when I put the drained seeds on the uncoated plain paper plates I use to dry the seeds I have a little tool I use to separate the seeds for drying. I use that to push aside anything that is not-seeds, and take a bit of paper towel and remove that from the plate when my seed spreading is finished.

I don't know what the tool I use is called -- it's one of several small stainless steel tools that I bought for wood carving/leather tooling and have found useful for many projects over the years. The ends of this one look sort of like elongated horse's hooves -- they are sharp, but sharp like a butter knife, not sharp enough to cut. Others sometimes useful for this include one with a very small, but blunt and rounded, bent probe type end, one with a very small curved end shaped like a partially flattened spoon, and one with an end something like a rounded cuticle tool from a manicure set. If I wanted more of them I'd probably look first at somewhere that sold a good line of leather tooling supplies. Or in my favorite spot -- boxes of misc small "don't know what this is" tools at garage sales.

I write the relevant seed batch info on the paper plate, dump the washed, drained seeds on there, spread them with this tool so none are touching (removing non-seed material if any remains -- usually there is none), and set the plate to dry. When the seeds are dry, they stick to the plate firmly enough not to spill easily, but not not so firmly that I can't gently loosen them by running the flat side of my hoof-tool over the plate.

To *maybe* prevent tiny maggots: I've been topping the glass Starbucks 'frappicino' bottles I use for fermenting with a square of the same tulle I use for bagging blossoms, secured with a rubber band. It *mostly* excludes fruit flies, and hasn't interfered with the formation of nice fungal mats. I began doing that because by the time I have seeds to ferment it's too cold to do it outside, the house is small, and I don't have an area to ferment seeds where fruit fly parties aren't a problem.

I've seen an occasional small determined fruit fly wiggle their way through the tulle -- not easily, they have to work at it -- and I've been thinking that if I left the tulle a little looser they might not be able to get through it at all, as stretching it tight does slightly enlarge the holes in the tulle, plus makes the threads firm enough for a determined fruit fly to push against when wiggling through.

The fruit flies aren't always present -- my guess is that they sometimes, but not always, come in with various garden produce I bring in and have sitting around to ripen or cure before processing or storage.

[RobinB]

I got maggots in my seeds last year and just picked them out. No unusual germination problems this year at all. It grossed me out, so this year I have been covering my cups with a coffee filter. I then use each filter to dry the seeds in. Is covering the cups a bad idea? Oops, I though it sounded like such a good idea!

[Tracydr]

I noticed that I now have black soldier flies in my tumbler. They are so gross but I tell myself that they are just like composting worms.
I will spend some quality time with them and see if I can change my aversion!

[clkeiper]

Did you have the maggots as soon as you started fermenting? My guess is you have the dreaded drosophila fruit fly, but it won't hurt the fermenting or seed saving, it just provides a head start for the process.

[Geezer]

And if you have tropical fish ( mollies, tetras, platies, etc.) they love 'em!

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Geezer

And if you have tropical fish ( mollies, tetras, platies, etc.) they love 'em!

I have ducklings. Chicks will be delivered next month. I would feed them as treats but I really don't care to touch them. They will probably disappear when it cools down. At least that's what happened the last time they arrived.

[b54red]

After rinsing my fermented seed until the water runs clear I then add some bleach to the water for about a minute and shake it up then pour seeds into a small fine mesh strainer and flush with fresh water. No more maggots and the seeds look a little better. I have noticed no difference in germination unless you let the seeds ferment so long that they start to sprout which has happened a few times due to forgetfulness.

Bill