Soil test results!

[Tania]

Good article about pH and liming: http://gardenrant.com/?guest_post=pl...ased-on-the-ph

It is in line with my philosophy.

Drew, I did not consider your comments rude, I should have been making my point more clear about blueberries and Ca. It was not a pravtical example, as I have no idea how to limit Ca uptake by blueberries when Ca is abundant in high pH soils.

Tatiana

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Tania

Tracy,

It is so lovely to be able to raise your own meat. And chickens too. I am so happy for you! Please keep us posted about your farm animals, once you get to that point. I would love to watch the progress. All the best to you! It sure looks like a very lovely place to farm!

I think you'll get everything thriving there very soon.

Tatiana

I'll be sure to post some pictures. I just about stepped on a four foot rat snake when I walked out the kitchen door so I'm inside recovering from the scare. I'm not good at distinguishing a cottonmouth from another dark snake and cotton mouths are aggressive, unlike most rattlesnakes that I've seen.
I got a second look at this snake a few minutes ago and he seems to be calm and non-agressive. I just hope he's not waiting to eat chicks. I've lost them to big snakes before, even when the bars of the cage are quite small.
One thing I really like about peafowl is that they do a great job of eating snakes and rodents. We also have three cats, although only one is probably hunting as the others are pretty old. They are free to go in and out the electronic doggy door.

[Barbee]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

I love your orchard, Drew!
Barbee-the reason that I don't want to put all the lime down at once is that it's harder to make soil pH go down than up. It would be pretty easy to overshoot and then have the opposite problem. Hence, my comment.

Tracy, I think you might find that just like you stated when you lived in AZ.. no matter what you did, your ph would shoot back up after each gardening season, you might find the reverse to be true in the natural acidic soil you have now. As you build up organic matter in your soil, you can keep it on a more even keel but until then, I think it will keep dropping.
Back to lurking

[drew51]

Yes, grafting is another way to have a variety of fruit. Amazing what you can do. I have a 4 in one Pluot tree with 4 cultivars grafted onto a rootstock. Hard to balance them so one doesn't over take the tree, but very possible with pruning to keep them all the same size. I never grafted but I'm going to practice on a grape vine next spring.
I agree about the lime treatment, good idea, although usually these reports give good advice. Yet some advice was not good IMHO. Boy you do have poor soil, good luck with it.
You will learn a lot, and you know the journey is the prize.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by Tania

Good article about pH and liming: http://gardenrant.com/?guest_post=pl...ased-on-the-ph

It is in line with my philosophy.

Drew, I did not consider your comments rude, I should have been making my point more clear about blueberries and Ca. It was not a pravtical example, as I have no idea how to limit Ca uptake by blueberries when Ca is abundant in high pH soils.

Tatiana

All I can say is you are one of the nicest people I ever met. An honor to correspond. You are convincing me to go 100% organic. At least as much as I possibly can. Thanks for all those links, many are saved. This is an excellent thread. I have noticed some disagreement among organic farmers but I think an important consideration is all gardening is local. I find that true time and again. What works here, doesn't work there, what tastes good here doesn't there. Especially with peaches!

With blueberries for 2 years I had them in a rich organic loam, but they failed to grow, just sat there for 2 years. I looked for help and discovered Garden Web. Upon advice from blueberry farm owners, my plants started growing extremely well. New branches, more berries. And basically all i did was change the PH.
So I have to rely on my own expierence. I'm not changing a thing on how I grow blueberries.
Here are some I added this year. I wanted to add some Southern Highbush. I left them in pots as I have to move in 3 years or so. i want to take them with me. I bought these this spring. This is first year growth.
I will transplant to bigger pots this fall. From left to right Southmoon, Lagacy, and Cara's Choice.




I just picked the last berries off of Chandler today. A NHB. This is it's 2nd summer. Soil PH is controlled with sulfur, and sulfuric acid in the water used. Results are amazing.

[Tracydr]

This is interesting:
http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/publication...asics_12-3.pdf

[Tracydr]

Drew- how low do you keep the pH for your blackberries? I'm interested in trying them. We have tons of wild blackberries but the fruit wasn't very good and they are in many of our walkways.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Drew- how low do you keep the pH for your blackberries? I'm interested in trying them. We have tons of wild blackberries but the fruit wasn't very good and they are in many of our walkways.

Tracy if the BlackBerrys are in tight soil with too much water they will be horrible.
They like a sandy soil or a dark soil that is in between limestone slabs and upheavals.

In these pots of soil they are fantastically sweet.
Well drained and just enough water so they will grow.

The wild huckleberry likes these conditions also the berries are kin to the blueberry.
Some of the best berries I have had came of of Heavner mountain in southeast Oklahoma.
The soil was of a redish hue with a covering of hardwoods and pine.

Worth

[Tracydr]

Thanks,Worth. I don't think the soil is tight. We have mostly sand. It could though, be severely lacking in nutrients.
I wanted to mention something else. The soil samples were taken at about 4-6" deep. In most parts of our property, there is a very thick layer of mulch with a lovely black layer of compost between the mulch and dirt. Since I dug down into the sand according to the instructions for the sample, this layer wasn't in the sample. I'm I know that the mulch and that thin layer of compost is beneficial but how does that count into the soil sample? Are these tests only designed for more conventional farming where soil is turned with organic matter twice a year?
The organic layer isn't on top of the septic area, only because that was dug and then smoothed out just a month ago when they did the septic field. I will be doing a cover crop on that area this winter, something that can provide lots of organic matter and maybe a legume like favas or clover as well.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Thanks,Worth. I don't think the soil is tight. We have mostly sand. It could though, be severely lacking in nutrients.
I wanted to mention something else. The soil samples were taken at about 4-6" deep. In most parts of our property, there is a very thick layer of mulch with a lovely black layer of compost between the mulch and dirt. Since I dug down into the sand according to the instructions for the sample, this layer wasn't in the sample. I'm I know that the mulch and that thin layer of compost is beneficial but how does that count into the soil sample? Are these tests only designed for more conventional farming where soil is turned with organic matter twice a year?
The organic layer isn't on top of the septic area, only because that was dug and then smoothed out just a month ago when they did the septic field. I will be doing a cover crop on that area this winter, something that can provide lots of organic matter and maybe a legume like favas or clover as well.

There is a new soil test protocol specifically designed for no till and organic or mostly organic farmers using a different biological pathway for fertilization that was developed by a soil scientist at USDA-SARE. I have been trying my best to find out more specifics on it, just haven't gotten a hold of him the few times I tried. I'll keep trying when I have time and post it on my project page when I find out details. Also, there is a completely different protocol for verifying carbon sequestration in the soil, (doesn't check anything but carbon) That protocol is usually only used for farmers participating in carbon programs though, I don't even know if NC has a carbon program. OK does, CA does, and a few other states do, but not many. I am on the list here in OK, just waiting............

[Tracydr]

Scott, let me know when you find out more about that test.
Apparently my soil is either quite compacted or there is such a thick layer of roots that I can't get to budge. I've been trying to till in a thick layer of rotted pine needles and leaves just to get a good start but my big, rear tined tiller is just scraping the surface. I always thought sand didn't pack?
I have a bunch of strawberries and my fall garden to get planted. I think I'm just going to go right into my thick mulch layer with the strawberries as if I was lasagna gardening. I haven't decided how to plant the direct sown seeds, maybe toss a layer of garden soil on top to make a finer seed bed?
I sprinkled a small amount of lime out, since I'm 0.6 points too low, even for strawberries.
I'm going to cover crop the area that the septic field was put into as well as the excess vegetable garden area.
I found this article fascinating:
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/...cs142p2_033488

[Tracydr]

My husband and I dumped two huge pickup truck loads of decomposed pine straw and leaves on the garden yesterday and today. I still have about one more truckload of leaves to go.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

I'll be sure to post some pictures. I just about stepped on a four foot rat snake when I walked out the kitchen door so I'm inside recovering from the scare. I'm not good at distinguishing a cottonmouth from another dark snake and cotton mouths are aggressive, unlike most rattlesnakes that I've seen.
I got a second look at this snake a few minutes ago and he seems to be calm and non-agressive. I just hope he's not waiting to eat chicks. I've lost them to big snakes before, even when the bars of the cage are quite small.
One thing I really like about peafowl is that they do a great job of eating snakes and rodents. We also have three cats, although only one is probably hunting as the others are pretty old. They are free to go in and out the electronic doggy door.

Did I mention that the next day, my Doberman was bitten by a snake, probably a small rattlesnake? She came in less than 5 minutes after I had last seen her. Her right side of her face and neck were grotesquely swollen. I was up with her all night, giving her pain meds and antibiotics, making sure her breathing was okay. She had a little trouble with breathing in the middle of the night.
Next day she was feeling better and off hunting lizards and frogs. She was totally normal looking after 5 days of keflex.
Thank god it was the really big dog, rather than my 8 pound Papillon. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have fared as well, especially on a weeknight without me knowing a vet in this little, rural area.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by drew51

All I can say is you are one of the nicest people I ever met. An honor to correspond. You are convincing me to go 100% organic. At least as much as I possibly can. Thanks for all those links, many are saved. This is an excellent thread. I have noticed some disagreement among organic farmers but I think an important consideration is all gardening is local. I find that true time and again. What works here, doesn't work there, what tastes good here doesn't there. Especially with peaches!

With blueberries for 2 years I had them in a rich organic loam, but they failed to grow, just sat there for 2 years. I looked for help and discovered Garden Web. Upon advice from blueberry farm owners, my plants started growing extremely well. New branches, more berries. And basically all i did was change the PH.
So I have to rely on my own expierence. I'm not changing a thing on how I grow blueberries.
Here are some I added this year. I wanted to add some Southern Highbush. I left them in pots as I have to move in 3 years or so. i want to take them with me. I bought these this spring. This is first year growth.
I will transplant to bigger pots this fall. From left to right Southmoon, Lagacy, and Cara's Choice.

I can only hope that all my berries thrive like yours. I have plans for lots of blueberries, blackberries and plenty of different fruit trees.i really want to try persimmons, paw paws, peaches, apples, pears and plumbs.


I just picked the last berries off of Chandler today. A NHB. This is it's 2nd summer. Soil PH is controlled with sulfur, and sulfuric acid in the water used. Results are amazing.

[Tracydr]

What a difference mulch makes! In the area that I've had covered with old leaves, horse manure, shavings and pine needles since beginning of August, I have a dark layer of loam and plenty of earthworms. Other areas have light tan sand and no life.