Wood chips in the garden - Page 6

Tania · October 2, 2014

Wood chips will contribute into building humus (as lignin is broken down by fungi). Hay - I am not so sure, as is it broken down by bacteria.

Wood chips promote fungi. Hay will help to feed bacterial life in the soil.

They say that fruit trees prefer fungi dominant soil.

So they are very different.

By the way, there is an easy test for herbicides in hay - plant a few tomato or pepper seeds in a pot and cover with hay. Watch for signs of herbicide damage as they sprout and grow. You'll notice it, if there is any herbicide residue in there, as tomatoes and peppers are very sensitive. You can also do that with peas.

Cheers,
Tatiana

kath · October 2, 2014

I've tried to grow pears, cherries, peaches and plums organically and eventually pulled all the trees but the apples. Since I read about bagging with plastic zip bags and gave it a try, I've decided it's worth the time and effort because it protects against insects and birds. The bags are prepared beforehand and the thinning & bagging take me a couple days and then I can forget about them until harvest time.

Tania · October 2, 2014

Kath,

So sorry to hear about you had to pull all the trees due to the pests pressure...

I am surprised to hear about plums, as in our area, plums are the easiest fruit tree to grow, virtually no diseases or pests, regardless of the growing conditions. The next 'easy' would be persimmon (but squirrels get every single fruit, so we do not get any!) and figs.

We have 3 plum trees that are loaded from plums every fall, we give away boxes of plums to friends and neighbors after making 45 quarts of plum jam and drying about 2 gallon ziplock bags.

kath · October 2, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tania

Kath,

So sorry to hear about you had to pull all the trees due to the pests pressure...

I am surprised to hear about plums, as in our area, plums are the easiest fruit tree to grow, virtually no diseases or pests, regardless of the growing conditions. The next 'easy' would be persimmon (but squirrels get every single fruit, so we do not get any!) and figs.

We have 3 plum trees that are loaded from plums every fall, we give away boxes of plums to friends and neighbors after making 45 quarts of plum jam and drying about 2 gallon ziplock bags.

Thanks, Tania, but they've been gone a LONG time, so I'm long over the pain.

It was a combination of borers, disease, insects and BIRDS that caused us to yank them, one by one over a few years. We tried netting but birds pecked through it and/or got tangled in it all the time and getting them out was a nightmare. The ants, birds and fungal disease (not to mention our cold winter) have caused me to keep my fig in a pot inside the greenhouse.

The idea of living in a climate where it's easier to grow fruits like you do certainly has its appeal.

kath

Worth1 · October 2, 2014

I planted two peach trees one died because a gall formed right at the graft.
The other has a branch coming up above the graft and the bugs love it the poor thing doesn't have a chance.
Below the graft is another sprout that is doing great and nothing wants anything to do with it.
I highly doubt the one below the graft will produce anything worth a hoot and am about ready to pull the thing up.
I cant even remember what kind they were.
What a waste of time.

Worth

Cole_Robbie · October 2, 2014

My hay comes from my family's property, plus these bales have been sitting outside for years. I know it's free of herbicides. I am hoping the weed seeds are not bad because it is so old. Maybe I can layer the hay over a layer of wood chips.

Tania · October 2, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

My hay comes from my family's property, plus these bales have been sitting outside for years. I know it's free of herbicides. I am hoping the weed seeds are not bad because it is so old. Maybe I can layer the hay over a layer of wood chips.

We had 3 year old hay and it sprouted tons of grass. I would have thought the mice took care of all the viable seeds by now, but this has not happened.

I'd suggest to put wood chips layer on top of hay. This will accomplish 2 things:

- hay breakdown will help to manage N tie-up between the soil and wood chips
- wood chips will suppress grass seeds sprouting from the hay

Layering hay on top of wood chips will not be good, as it will inhibit wood chips break-down by fungi (as it will encourage bacterial breakdown). The value of wood chips is when it is broken down by fungi, hence it will be partially diminished.

Cole_Robbie · October 2, 2014

Thanks, Tania. I may just keep the hay experiments separate.

Redbaron · October 3, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tania

We had 3 year old hay and it sprouted tons of grass.

I have had hay sprout grass too. Of course in my system that's a good thing, saves me the trouble of having to reseed.

drew51 · October 9, 2014

Here for apples we have too many pests not to spray. A lot of apples are grown here, and the moths are all over. I know of an abandoned orchard. Most of the apples are no good, but I can find one or two a tree. Enough to make some dishes. I was unable to make it to the orchard this year. It's near my in-laws place. But I have had a good year. Lot's of fruit in my own garden.
Bagging the apples does work well, but too much work for me.
The clay product used to spray is harmless. I would try the kaolin clay if I grew apples. Easy to apply, works really well. Organic all the way.

As many have stated growing fruit trees is about the most difficult plants to grow.
But hey we all grow tomatoes, and although easy to start require work to keep going! BTW I still have tomatoes ripening here, but any day I will be done. I brought in about 40 fruits that were showing some color, all ripened very fast inside! Maybe about 10 left out there. I'll be harvesting all of them soon, ripe or not.

Worth I would leave the rootstock in, you can graft unto it!
Fruitnut is in TX and he has about 90 peach trees. Well actually that is how many he lost this year, he has hundreds of peach trees. Tough year for peaches! He grows outside and in a greenhouse. So he does get product every year.

Tracydr · October 17, 2014

So, in July, when we moved here I shredded a bunch of branches with green leaves. I left those piles in the shade until now.
Today, I scooped up the piles to put into my lasagna garden. I have some beautiful looking compost, almost like vermicompost! Huge worms between the clippings and the earth. A few bits of larger wood pieces but mostly beautiful, black compost!
We'll be collecting lots of leaves, which I also plan to shred and put on all the gardens.

Tracydr · October 17, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew51

Here for apples we have too many pests not to spray. A lot of apples are grown here, and the moths are all over. I know of an abandoned orchard. Most of the apples are no good, but I can find one or two a tree. Enough to make some dishes. I was unable to make it to the orchard this year. It's near my in-laws place. But I have had a good year. Lot's of fruit in my own garden.
Bagging the apples does work well, but too much work for me.
The clay product used to spray is harmless. I would try the kaolin clay if I grew apples. Easy to apply, works really well. Organic all the way.

As many have stated growing fruit trees is about the most difficult plants to grow.
But hey we all grow tomatoes, and although easy to start require work to keep going! BTW I still have tomatoes ripening here, but any day I will be done. I brought in about 40 fruits that were showing some color, all ripened very fast inside! Maybe about 10 left out there. I'll be harvesting all of them soon, ripe or not.

Worth I would leave the rootstock in, you can graft unto it!
Fruitnut is in TX and he has about 90 peach trees. Well actually that is how many he lost this year, he has hundreds of peach trees. Tough year for peaches! He grows outside and in a greenhouse. So he does get product every year.

Is it hard to remove the clay from the fruit when you harvest?
There were some beautiful peaches for sale around here this summer. I found a huge peach I really liked, harvested in August. I think he called it Last Chance or something. Biggest peaches I've ever seen!

Tania · October 21, 2014

Another interesting research article that compares vegetable yields with different growing methods, including ramial wood chips.

https://attachment.fbsbx.com/file_do...tLvlaaOv_MPmSq

Cole_Robbie · October 21, 2014

I posted this question in an old hugelkultur thread. I have a lot of old fallen trees that are mostly rotten. If wood is rotten before I bury it, does that negate the nitrogen-fixing? If a log is crumbling to the touch, would it be better to smash it into mulch than it would be to bury it?

Tania · October 21, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I posted this question in an old hugelkultur thread. I have a lot of old fallen trees that are mostly rotten. If wood is rotten before I bury it, does that negate the nitrogen-fixing? If a log is crumbling to the touch, would it be better to smash it into mulch than it would be to bury it?

So sorry I somehow missed your post in the other thread. It is answered there.

October 2, 2014	#76
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	Wood chips will contribute into building humus (as lignin is broken down by fungi). Hay - I am not so sure, as is it broken down by bacteria. Wood chips promote fungi. Hay will help to feed bacterial life in the soil. They say that fruit trees prefer fungi dominant soil. So they are very different. By the way, there is an easy test for herbicides in hay - plant a few tomato or pepper seeds in a pot and cover with hay. Watch for signs of herbicide damage as they sprout and grow. You'll notice it, if there is any herbicide residue in there, as tomatoes and peppers are very sensitive. You can also do that with peas. Cheers, Tatiana __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

October 2, 2014	#78
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	Kath, So sorry to hear about you had to pull all the trees due to the pests pressure... I am surprised to hear about plums, as in our area, plums are the easiest fruit tree to grow, virtually no diseases or pests, regardless of the growing conditions. The next 'easy' would be persimmon (but squirrels get every single fruit, so we do not get any!) and figs. We have 3 plum trees that are loaded from plums every fall, we give away boxes of plums to friends and neighbors after making 45 quarts of plum jam and drying about 2 gallon ziplock bags. __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

October 17, 2014	#86
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	So, in July, when we moved here I shredded a bunch of branches with green leaves. I left those piles in the shade until now. Today, I scooped up the piles to put into my lasagna garden. I have some beautiful looking compost, almost like vermicompost! Huge worms between the clippings and the earth. A few bits of larger wood pieces but mostly beautiful, black compost! We'll be collecting lots of leaves, which I also plan to shred and put on all the gardens. Last edited by Tracydr; October 17, 2014 at 06:47 PM.

October 21, 2014	#88
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	Another interesting research article that compares vegetable yields with different growing methods, including ramial wood chips. https://attachment.fbsbx.com/file_do...tLvlaaOv_MPmSq __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

October 2, 2014	#77
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	I've tried to grow pears, cherries, peaches and plums organically and eventually pulled all the trees but the apples. Since I read about bagging with plastic zip bags and gave it a try, I've decided it's worth the time and effort because it protects against insects and birds. The bags are prepared beforehand and the thinning & bagging take me a couple days and then I can forget about them until harvest time.

October 2, 2014	#80
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I planted two peach trees one died because a gall formed right at the graft. The other has a branch coming up above the graft and the bugs love it the poor thing doesn't have a chance. Below the graft is another sprout that is doing great and nothing wants anything to do with it. I highly doubt the one below the graft will produce anything worth a hoot and am about ready to pull the thing up. I cant even remember what kind they were. What a waste of time. Worth

October 2, 2014	#81
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	My hay comes from my family's property, plus these bales have been sitting outside for years. I know it's free of herbicides. I am hoping the weed seeds are not bad because it is so old. Maybe I can layer the hay over a layer of wood chips.

October 9, 2014	#85
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	Here for apples we have too many pests not to spray. A lot of apples are grown here, and the moths are all over. I know of an abandoned orchard. Most of the apples are no good, but I can find one or two a tree. Enough to make some dishes. I was unable to make it to the orchard this year. It's near my in-laws place. But I have had a good year. Lot's of fruit in my own garden. Bagging the apples does work well, but too much work for me. The clay product used to spray is harmless. I would try the kaolin clay if I grew apples. Easy to apply, works really well. Organic all the way. As many have stated growing fruit trees is about the most difficult plants to grow. But hey we all grow tomatoes, and although easy to start require work to keep going! BTW I still have tomatoes ripening here, but any day I will be done. I brought in about 40 fruits that were showing some color, all ripened very fast inside! Maybe about 10 left out there. I'll be harvesting all of them soon, ripe or not. Worth I would leave the rootstock in, you can graft unto it! Fruitnut is in TX and he has about 90 peach trees. Well actually that is how many he lost this year, he has hundreds of peach trees. Tough year for peaches! He grows outside and in a greenhouse. So he does get product every year.