Fall tilling, spring tilling...

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by TomNJ

Aside from the need to soften and fluff the soil for seed germination and root crops, I till to add organics at the root level in the soil. If one doesn't till, how do we incorporate compost, cover crops, and other organic garden debris deep into the soil where it can decompose and the plant roots can benefit? Serious question - I'd like to learn.

TomNJ/VA

Tom thew idea if I'm not mistaking is the stuff lays on the ground and rots.
When it rots the worms will carry the nutrients into the soil as worm droppings.
Also some of it will leech into the soil.

I do know that compost will do just fine sitting on top of the soil for many plants like tomatoes and such.

I actually use compost and peat moss as a mulch on some plants.
Over time the soil will build up higher and higher.
This is a great way to do things but one has to bare in mind that if you use too much insecticides and such you can turn the whole idea upside down.
You will kill the microbes and wildlife in the soil and end up with nothing.

My yard is a perfect example of the so called permaculture idea.

The soil on top is loose and full of critters.
The armadillos come in at night and eat the grubs and scratch and dig in the soil.
The small leaves that fall from the trees stay in the yard and serve as much and fertilizer for next year.
In the winter annual rye grass sprouts and the roots loosen the soil more.
It also helps stop the weeds from coming up.

As for the nutrients needing to be deep they dont need to be.
Almost at ground level or an inch down is good enough.

This is what I have observed many times over and through experimenting.
Time after time the plants with the better soil on top out performed the ones I dug holes for and added good soil deep down.

Worth

[amideutch]

Just got done removing the plants out of my no-till raised bed at work. The roots didn't venture far from the main stem, maybe 8" and root depth was down to 6". Studies have shown most of your microbes/spores in untilled soil are in the 3" to 6" depth range. So basically the roots won't wander far if the nutrients and microbes are close to home and they get adequate moisture.

Ami

[Lindalana]

TomNJ, I think it is like catch 22, if you till you need more tilling as soil will not stay loose and fluffy but if you no till and follow/mimic natural processes, your soil will be loose and soft just the same with little work from you.
I have large perennial gardens, under oaks and besides leaf mulch that stays on the beds there is no fertilizing or watering done. Last year workers that were putting a fence were drooling over how easy it was to put in posts and how good the soil was. I have very lush gardens and can work digging with my hands. When I started this I did not know about Masanoba Fukuoka but his "One straw revolution" is one of my favorite philosophies.
Also "Back to Eden" movie made a great impression on my gardening practices.

[Worth1]

I'm considering putting a one inch layer of washed bank sand on top of the soil of my raised beds then compost then leaf mulch.
Sand is one of the best moisture barriers there is.

Worth

[TomNJ]

I apply a heavy mulch to my garden every year, but have always turned it under in the fall or spring to increase the organic content of the soil. My soil is loaded with earth worms and my crops quite successful, so it doesn't seem to be doing any harm. It's hard for me to think of not loosening the soil to allow seedling roots to get a good start, and especially for root crops such as garlic, carrots, parsnips, etc. That said I'll have to read more and rethink.

TomNJ/VA

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by TomNJ

I apply a heavy mulch to my garden every year, but have always turned it under in the fall or spring to increase the organic content of the soil. My soil is loaded with earth worms and my crops quite successful, so it doesn't seem to be doing any harm. It's hard for me to think of not loosening the soil to allow seedling roots to get a good start, and especially for root crops such as garlic, carrots, parsnips, etc. That said I'll have to read more and rethink.

TomNJ/VA

Tom I think it is a matter of choice like everything else.
I think the key is adding the mulch regardless if you till or not.
I have a nice tiller and will use it when I feel fit to use it.

One of the things mulch does that many people dont think about is slowing down and dispersing raindrops.
With raindrops hitting bare soil they can compact it.
If they hit the mulch first they wont.

I watched my father for years slave away in a huge garden in the hot sun tilling soil to stop capillary action and break up the crust on top.
All that time he had a huge forest of trees and mountains of leaves he could have used for mulch.
But that is what everyone did and it was the way him and everyone else was raised.
The garden was on a slope and every year more soil would wash away and more rocks would come to the surface.
Every summer we would pick more rocks.

I wish I had it all over to do again sometimes.
We could have terraced the slope, added mulch and never had to pick another rock.

He could have spent more time fishing instead of hoeing, pulling weeds and picking rocks every summer.
All the while popping nitro pills when his chest would start hurting.

Worth

[bower]

I wouldn't question the importance of incorporating no-till features into every agricultural ecosystem, for the benefits which have already been described, and for other benefits which are especially important in specific geographies or on the large scale, such as erosion control and prevention of agricultural runoff, and other benefits or necessities which might apply specifically to a regional environment or to soil type or condition caused by a history of constantly tilling and using herbicides, pesticides and chemical ferts.

But no one has mentioned the positive ecological benefits of tilling for organic farmers, at least some of the land in their care which is used for annual crops. Tilling in fall exposes soil dwelling pests to winter temperatures and reduces their numbers and the need for other methods of pest control. Tilling in spring or during the season exposes soil dwelling pests to the attention of birds - an important partner in the farm ecosystem. True, some worms are also eaten as a result, but it doesn't appear to be detrimental to their populations. They benefit by having crop residues and other organic matter broken up and dispersed in the soil by tilling. The extra depth of loose soil increases the volume of optimal habitat for the worms as well as for roots of the crop, afaict. The community of soil microorganisms in the rhizosphere also, by common reasoning, enjoys more habitat if that zone extends deeper into the soil.

Just a few thoughts.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by TomNJ

Aside from the need to soften and fluff the soil for seed germination and root crops, I till to add organics at the root level in the soil. If one doesn't till, how do we incorporate compost, cover crops, and other organic garden debris deep into the soil where it can decompose and the plant roots can benefit? Serious question - I'd like to learn.

TomNJ/VA

It's a big subject Tom. But I will take a stab at it. First off many things do grow in healthy soil besides just plants. There are billions and billions of micro-organisms fungi, plant roots, insects, worms, nematodes, arthropods, etc.... In healthy soil somewhere around 94%-99% of these are beneficial. There are 3 main ways organic matter and nutrients get to the root zone. First is leaching. As organic materials on the surface rot they release nutrients and tannins that rain will leach down to the root zone. The second is burrowing larger biology like worms and insects like dung beetles, grubs, arthropods etc. They crawl up to the surface and grab a bit of food and drag it down and eat it. Their manure is highly beneficial to the soil. The third is a chain of life that lives directly in the rhizosphere and is fed by the plants themselves in a symbiotic relationship. The roots grow down and the produce what is called exudates. Those exudates are high energy sugars and other products of photosynthesis specifically purposed for feeding the biology in the soil that create a habitat beneficial for the plant. Think of it this way. A tree puts its excess sugars into building cellulose and making a wood trunk. This basically can be seen as creating beneficial habitat above ground for the tree. Most other plants instead pump most their excess energy in a sap like substance called exudates to create beneficial habitat under the ground.

In order for those nutrients to be released, the biology in the soil must eat it. Then of course there is a whole web of life down there eating those that ate it and so on and so forth until there is very little energy left in it. That process is called mineralization. At that point it becomes stabilized humus that simply holds plant ready nutrients in a similar way as a charcoal filter pulls impurities from your drinking water. Those nutrients become available in a process called cation exchange.

Now what happens when you till? First thing is you kill a whole lot of that mostly beneficial web of life. You also add large quantities of oxygen. If you are adding organic matter, this also temporarily adds a huge influx of food for certain microorganisms. So mineralization increases, lots of stored nutrients are released, and new material is added. This has a huge temporary benefit for your crops. That's why for thousands of years it was considered the standard procedure in agriculture.

But there are some less than ideal things that happen as well. First off is that the web of life in the soil that used to be primarily fed by exudates is killed, while the microbiology that prefers decaying matter increases. This changes the micro-organism community. Instead of 94-99% beneficial, you leave an opening for pathogens to get a foot hold. There would still be mostly beneficials, but a much higher % of pathogens (plant diseases) has a chance to get established. That big influx of oxygen also can oxidize some of the humus (releasing CO2) that would otherwise be stable for thousands of years. So even though this does release nutrients, it reduces the cation exchange capacity of the soil. So you are trading a short term benefit of quick release for a long term reduction of soil nutrient holding capacity.

A good analogy would be jars of food. You could open the jars and eat a bit then replace the lid..... when empty, add a bit of food, and replace the lid and can it.... That could go on for thousands of years. But you could also say it is too much trouble to keep opening and closing the jars, The whole canning process is too much work.... and decide to just open and throw away the containers along with any extra food they might have contained. You'll get easy access to the food quickly, but you'll soon run out of jars, and will need to replace them.

So tilling does work. But it locks you into constantly replacing both the plant nutrients (food) and the humus (jars). It also locks you into dealing with that increased pathogen load.

Now for practical advise. I like to try and use the best from both. So I use no till on the majority of the garden or field, but I do use compost too. The trick is that I only use the compost right in the hole I put my transplants in spring. Obviously this allows that quick early release of nutrients to get my tomatoes off to a good start, while maintaining as little disturbance as possible everywhere else. The other benefit is that I use substantially less compost and other inputs. If you start with poor soil, you will get a short term decrease in yield. But each year it will get better as the soil food web recovers. If you start with pretty good soil already, it is possible to get higher yields right away.

[amideutch]

Tilling in fall exposes soil dwelling pests to winter temperatures and reduces their numbers and the need for other methods of pest control

In most parts of the states the frost lines are well below tilling depth so that should not be a player.

http://www.decks.com/deckbuilding/De...rost_Depth_Map

Ami

[TomNJ]

Thank you Redbaron for taking the time to provide a detailed assessment of the pros and cons of tilling. I agree it is a complex subject and one I will need to investigate further. Right now I only till the rows being planted, not the space between rows, and I shift the rows each year, so the soil is actually getting tilled every other year.

TomNJ/VA

[peppero]

I have several beds that I used to do some tilling in but gave up the practice. Now I cover the beds in manure and chopped up leaves. I am happy with the results.

jon

[creister]

I have read that most home gardeners ability to till deeper than 8-12 inches is minimal. To put organic matter lower, break up hard/tight soils, and bring nutrients up in the soil profile is to use cover crops with deep root systems like daikon radish, buckwheat and others.

[bower]

Originally Posted by creister

I have read that most home gardeners ability to till deeper than 8-12 inches is minimal. To put organic matter lower, break up hard/tight soils, and bring nutrients up in the soil profile is to use cover crops with deep root systems like daikon radish, buckwheat and others.

I was wondering about cover crops... are they even possible with no till?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by bower

I was wondering about cover crops... are they even possible with no till?

Absolutely they are. They can be used many ways with many forms of no till. What is confusing you?

[bower]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Absolutely they are. They can be used many ways with many forms of no till. What is confusing you?

Please describe how you sow a cover crop in a no till bed.
Do you also pull them by hand and lay them on top, instead of tilling the crop in?

I'm not making fun or being rude, I just don't have any knowledge of the cover crop process for no till.