Coeur de Boeuf de Jerusalem RL or PL?

[heirloomtomaguy]

So i bought these seeds from a reputable seed company but they no longer list it and i cant find out whether or not it is regular leaf or potato leaf. I planted two seeds and i got both leaf types. If in fact both plants are true to type and not crossed i need to know which is the original. Thanks for any help in advance.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

So i bought these seeds from a reputable seed company but they no longer list it and i cant find out whether or not it is regular leaf or potato leaf. I planted two seeds and i got both leaf types. If in fact both plants are true to type and not crossed i need to know which is the original. Thanks for any help in advance.

I don't know how much help I'm going to be, but didn't find it at Tania's website, Googled it and all references to it come up in French, and I do read a bit of French, a link to Tomodori in France just shunts you to Ventmarin, a huge tomato base in France, no seeds sold, and where it was listed there was absolutely no info and no picture.

Have you considered contacting the company you bought the seeds from and asking if it's PL or RL, and if you want to share with them that you got both PL and RL and would like to know what the original should be. They may have stopped listing it if others also reported both leaf types if they are reoutable, as you say.

Carolyn

[Tormato]

If the PL turns out to be a heart, I'd some saved seed.

Gary

[heirloomtomaguy]

So i just heard back from the vendor and it is supposed to be RL. They also said the plant was grown in isolation no where near another PL plant so we will have to see what comes of it. Possibly a Coeur de Bueof de California. Lol.

Gary if it is in fact a PL heart i will save seed and you will be the first to get some.

[heirloomtomaguy]

Alright so my PL Couer de Bouef de Jerusalem sure looks to be shaping up to be a PL heart. Here is a couple pics of the small fruit forming.

[carolyn137]

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...pz0Hutm60GGPEA

From the above link, it should RL, see description about foliage being normal.

Here's the general Google search from which I had the above translated.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...j%C3%A9rusalem

And this next and final link really intrigues me as to a possible origin for this variety:

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...rusalem+tomato

Heart shaped tomatoes are not native to Israel, but Jewish immigrants from many countries in Europe moved there and brought seeds with them. And I think that's what happened and if so the ultimate country of origin will never be known.

Finally I'm not surprised at all that some folks go to Israel as visitors, for different reasons, and then buy tomatoes at roadside stands, or pluck hollyhock seed from the roadside as one person did.

Yes, I visited both Greece and some Greek Isles as well as Israel in the same trip. Both were fascinating and perhaps the main reason for those two countries on that trip is my continuing long time interest in archaeology and I sub to 4 different archaeology magazines.

Hope the above helps,

Carolyn

[Douglas14]

I've got one RL and one PL plant of this variety out in the garden. It will be interesting to compare notes and see how the tomatoes turn out on both leaf types.

Doug

[heirloomtomaguy]

Heres a pic of the PL leaves of of plant. They are rather large definitely bigger than my hands.

[crmauch]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

...Heart shaped tomatoes are not native to Israel...

Actually, I'm pretty sure, that no tomatoes are native to Israel...

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by crmauch

Actually, I'm pretty sure, that no tomatoes are native to Israel...

You are absolutely correct and I should not have used the word native, my error.

Carolyn

[heirloomtomaguy]

Ok so as it turns out we have a definite accidental cross. Here are two pics of tomatoes off of the same plant. One seems to be a pink beefsteak and the other is a black heart. They are almost ripe enough to pick and when i do i will post pics of the insides.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

Ok so as it turns out we have a definite accidental cross. Here are two pics of tomatoes off of the same plant. One seems to be a pink beefsteak and the other is a black heart. They are almost ripe enough to pick and when i do i will post pics of the insides.

I went back and read some of the links I posted and this variety is supposed to be a red heart with RL foliage.

And yet you pictured two entirely different fruit shapes, with entirely different colors from the SAME plant.

So no red hearts anywhere .

You bought the seeds so no X pollinations in your garden and can pretty much rule out a stray seed situation since almost always stray seeds lead to plants with all the same fruits, leaf form, etc.

Best I can suggest is that you save seeds from just ONE black heart and just One pink beef, and if you have the room and the interest to plant out as many plants from those F2 seeds as you can, for both the heart and the beef and see what you get.

Carolyn

[heirloomtomaguy]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I went back and read some of the links I posted and this variety is supposed to be a red heart with RL foliage.

And yet you pictured two entirely different fruit shapes, with entirely different colors from the SAME plant.

So no red hearts anywhere .

You bought the seeds so no X pollinations in your garden and can pretty much rule out a stray seed situation since almost always stray seeds lead to plants with all the same fruits, leaf form, etc.

Best I can suggest is that you save seeds from just ONE black heart and just One pink beef, and if you have the room and the interest to plant out as many plants from those F2 seeds as you can, for both the heart and the beef and see what you get.

Carolyn

Thats what i plan on doing. There is one other TV member who bought these seeds from the same company and got both PL and RL plants. We will have to wait and see what he gets. I have several other fruits ripening on the PL plant right now. Of about 10 or so fruits only 2 of them are not heart shaped while only one of them is not a black tomato. All the rest are mostly pointed hearts with 2 blunt hearts all black. My focus is mostly on the pointed black hearts and i will be growing out wuite a few of the F2 plants from these ones. I sippose i should start a new thread for my grow out journey.

[NarnianGarden]

How many plants should one grow (statistically speaking) before they can expect to see such an anomaly in their garden?
I would love to have a tomato plant with fruits of different color... or something else that interesting

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

How many plants should one grow (statistically speaking) before they can expect to see such an anomaly in their garden?
I would love to have a tomato plant with fruits of different color... or something else that interesting

A variety that has fruits of different colors on a plant at the same time?

Not a problem, grow.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Lutescent

I'd call it a novelty variety. fruits not that tasty, but it does have what you want.

How many plants before you see an anomaly? I guess you are referring to this current situation, and if X pollination is suspected you grow out as many plants as you have room for in one season. Many breeders will start by putting out about 20 plants.

it goes the same way backwards when trying to dehybridize a known F1 hybrid. I was sent a three way cross and the person who sent it to me said Ihad a 1/64 chance of getting what he described.

I put out 12 plants that first season and got it. It's all about statistical probabilities.

And what I got was called Tad, since it was Tad smith who sent it tome, and Tad became a parent in a cross pollination in Craig's garden, Craig also knew Tad, he used to construct some hybrid varieties just for the two of us, and what came out of that Tad X Brandywine accidental x pollination was Lucky cross, Little Lucky and so many more.

So I got lucky with Tad and just 12 plants and I'm hoping that happens with what will be worked on here withthis situation as well.

Carolyn