Heart Shaped Omar's Lebanese!

[Spartanburg123]

One plant was grown out of the same seed pack (Totally Tomatoes) as the other 5 plants I have. All of the others show the same oblate large fruit typical of the variety. This plant has enormous and heavy foliage, and what appear to be heart-shaped fruit. Is it possible to have a spontaneous mutation for fruit shape? Or is this seed likely a cross between OL and another heart-shaped variety?
If the taste is bad, then I won't worry about it. But if it is indeed a great tasting heart shaped tomato with heavy RL foliage, it could be interesting!

I'll post pictures later. It's not letting me attach right now!

Thanks!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Spartanburg123

One plant was grown out of the same seed pack (Totally Tomatoes) as the other 5 plants I have. All of the others show the same oblate large fruit typical of the variety. This plant has enormous and heavy foliage, and what appear to be heart-shaped fruit. Is it possible to have a spontaneous mutation for fruit shape? Or is this seed likely a cross between OL and another heart-shaped variety?
If the taste is bad, then I won't worry about it. But if it is indeed a great tasting heart shaped tomato with heavy RL foliage, it could be interesting!

I'll post pictures later. It's not letting me attach right now!

Thanks!

So ALL of the fruits on one plant areheart shaped?

Do you know what color they are?

Of course I'm interestged since I was the person who first introduced Omar's Lebanese.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...r%27s_Lebanese

If the mature fruit color is pink, and a heart, do save some seeds and as Mama to Omar's may I please claim some of those seeds.

But if NOT pink, which is a possibility as a result of X pollination, then all bets are off.

I do know of some heart versions of a non-heart original that have appeared and some are known to be genetically stable, but not from plants that had ALL hearts on a single plant.

With this possible exception;

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...7s_Black_Heart

Tania says a heart shaped tomato ( singular) in a patch of Black Krim plants.

So if just one tomato was noted, then it would have to be a plant that had just ONE fruit that was heart shaped/

I don't know the genetics of heart shaped varieties as to what causes the change to heart shaped, except for the fact that high sustained heat can do it. The only way to tell in such a situation is to save seeds from the heart one(s) and see if all plants from the saved F2 seeds have heart shaped fruit.

Carolyn

[Spartanburg123]

Carolyn, they are all heart-shaped- 6 fruit so far. I will admit that they were indeed pollinated during a high-heat week, but so were the other Omar's that pollinated in the same time frame. This one is an anomaly!!! I wish this blasted site would let me attach the pictures! Could be I'm in the office. I'll try again tonight.

[Spartanburg123]

Let's see if these pics work. I won't be able to tell the color for quite some time. Overall, I would say the plant was sluggish to flower and is not particularly productive...

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

So ALL of the fruits on one plant areheart shaped?

Do you know what color they are?

Of course I'm interestged since I was the person who first introduced Omar's Lebanese.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...r%27s_Lebanese

If the mature fruit color is pink, and a heart, do save some seeds and as Mama to Omar's may I please claim some of those seeds.

But if NOT pink, which is a possibility as a result of X pollination, then all bets are off.

I do know of some heart versions of a non-heart original that have appeared and some are known to be genetically stable, but not from plants that had ALL hearts on a single plant.

With this possible exception;

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...7s_Black_Heart

Tania says a heart shaped tomato ( singular) in a patch of Black Krim plants.

So if just one tomato was noted, then it would have to be a plant that had just ONE fruit that was heart shaped/

I don't know the genetics of heart shaped varieties as to what causes the change to heart shaped, except for the fact that high sustained heat can do it. The only way to tell in such a situation is to save seeds from the heart one(s) and see if all plants from the saved F2 seeds have heart shaped fruit.

Carolyn

Oh, and of course, I'll be happy to send you seeds! I still owe you some seeds from the "Big Czech" tomato that I talked about on here last year- it's from West Virginia and is an excellent tomato!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Spartanburg123

Oh, and of course, I'll be happy to send you seeds! I still owe you some seeds from the "Big Czech" tomato that I talked about on here last year- it's from West Virginia and is an excellent tomato!

The ones shown certainly do look hearty and If pink, then the only other issue we have to deal with is whether the seed that gave that plant was a stray seed in the pack of seeds that you bought from Totally Tomatoes.

It has happened you know. The variety Orange Strawberry, named by Marjorie Morris came from a stray seed in a commercial pack of the variety Pineapple/

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...nge_Strawberry

No, I'm not a negative person at all, trust me on that, but with all other varieties that gave a heart shape that turned out to be stable I can't remember one where ALL fruits on a plant were heart shaped.

Be sure to save seeds separately from several fruits and label them alphabetically or by numbers so when you grow out the plants from the saved F2 seed you can see if all plants produce hearts.

Carolyn

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

The ones shown certainly do look hearty and If pink, then the only other issue we have to deal with is whether the seed that gave that plant was a stray seed in the pack of seeds that you bought from Totally Tomatoes.

It has happened you know. The variety Orange Strawberry, named by Marjorie Morris came from a stray seed in a commercial pack of the variety Pineapple/

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...nge_Strawberry

No, I'm not a negative person at all, trust me on that, but with all other varieties that gave a heart shape that turned out to be stable I can't remember one where ALL fruits on a plant were heart shaped.

Be sure to save seeds separately from several fruits and label them alphabetically or by numbers so when you grow out the plants from the saved F2 seed you can see if all plants produce hearts.

Carolyn

Absolutely, I will do that! What is odd is that if it is a pink heart, and came from a stray seed, it most definitely does NOT show the wispy and sparse foliage that I read is common with hearts. This thing is monstrous! I just wish it would flower more!

[Al@NC]

You can give it more "P-K" and influence it to bloom more! You probably already know this but I couldn't resist stating it. You could either use Miracle Grow Bloom booster or even the Alaskian Fish Fertilizer Morbloom:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Alaska-32...9251/202817750

Of course I don't know what you feed it already and if these would complicate things for you or not...

Al

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by Al@NC

You can give it more "P-K" and influence it to bloom more! You probably already know this but I couldn't resist stating it. You could either use Miracle Grow Bloom booster or even the Alaskian Fish Fertilizer Morbloom:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Alaska-32...9251/202817750

Of course I don't know what you feed it already and if these would complicate things for you or not...

Al

Thanks Al! I will try that fish treatment from Home Depot. Have you tried it?

So far, my regimen involves Miracle Grow Tomato food every two weeks, along with a few teaspoons of Tomato Tone every now and then. I do give them a calcium nitrate snack from time to time.

So phosphorus = bloom production? I'll try this!

Thanks!

Darin

[Spartanburg123]

OK, I have added a Bloom Booster in addition to a fish emulsion to help stimulate flowrering. The bigger issue that I have is blossom end-rot (BER). I have only six tomatoes, and three of them are developing this. I just added a little Epsom salt (one tablespoon in 2 gallons water) to hopefully help with this- probably too late.

Carolyn- I really want to save seeds- but at what stage can seed be safely saved from the tomatoes? Do they have to be completely ripe?

On a positive note, there are quite a few new blossoms up top- but its so hard to set fruit when the temps are averaging 96 degrees every day....ugh!!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Spartanburg123

OK, I have added a Bloom Booster in addition to a fish emulsion to help stimulate flowrering. The bigger issue that I have is blossom end-rot (BER). I have only six tomatoes, and three of them are developing this. I just added a little Epsom salt (one tablespoon in 2 gallons water) to hopefully help with this- probably too late.

Carolyn- I really want to save seeds- but at what stage can seed be safely saved from the tomatoes? Do they have to be completely ripe?

On a positive note, there are quite a few new blossoms up top- but its so hard to set fruit when the temps are averaging 96 degrees every day....ugh!!

Do you have BER on any of the other fruits of other varieties you are raising? And I'm asking since Epsom Salts is magnesium sulfate and the problem with BER is calcium uptake. But if you have lots of BER on other varieties it may be that your soil is too acidic and the Epsom Salts can alter the pH.

You can have mature seed inside a fruit when the fruits start blushing color about 1/3 of the way up from the blossom end. You could pick those fruits and ripen them inside out of the sun, but they could still develop BER even after picking them.

There are two kinds of BER. In one case you can see it on the exterior at the blossom end and with what's called internal BER you see it only when the fruits are opened as a black area in the flesh.

Either way you can still save seeds from BER fruits, for it's not an infection, it's a physiological problem.

With exterior BER just cut off the bottom BER affected part and save the seeds from the rest of the fruit. With internal BER just save the seeds and if you feel uncomfortable about saving them from the internal black area, just cut it out and save seeds from the non black area.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn, who has never used anything to increase blossom production, your fish emulsion will also redirect energy from the sexual cycle of blossom production back to the vegetative cycle of new foliage, stems and roots.I prefer to let nature do what it can and will do without messing around between the vegetative and sexual cycles. Just her opinion.

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Do you have BER on any of the other fruits of other varieties you are raising? And I'm asking since Epsom Salts is magnesium sulfate and the problem with BER is calcium uptake. But if you have lots of BER on other varieties it may be that your soil is too acidic and the Epsom Salts can alter the pH.

You can have mature seed inside a fruit when the fruits start blushing color about 1/3 of the way up from the blossom end. You could pick those fruits and ripen them inside out of the sun, but they could still develop BER even after picking them.

There are two kinds of BER. In one case you can see it on the exterior at the blossom end and with what's called internal BER you see it only when the fruits are opened as a black area in the flesh.

Either way you can still save seeds from BER fruits, for it's not an infection, it's a physiological problem.

With exterior BER just cut off the bottom BER affected part and save the seeds from the rest of the fruit. With internal BER just save the seeds and if you feel uncomfortable about saving them from the internal black area, just cut it out and save seeds from the non black area.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn, who has never used anything to increase blossom production, your fish emulsion will also redirect energy from the sexual cycle of blossom production back to the vegetative cycle of new foliage, stems and roots.I prefer to let nature do what it can and will do without messing around between the vegetative and sexual cycles. Just her opinion.

Good advice! There are a few other plants showing signs of BER- and it's visual- black specks showing up on the bottom, with gradual blackening of the blossom end.

With the Epsom salts, I also added a teaspoon of Ca(NO3)2.

I will let these fruit start to blush before I remove them. I have six, and three have BER. I know it's not a problem with this particular plant as I have a few Early Girls and a Dr. Wyche's Yellow with the same problem.

I'll snap some more pics tomorrow! Thanks Carolyn

[Spartanburg123]

Picture update on fruit growth, showing BER on some of the fruits. Last picture is a "normal" Omar's Lebanese plant grown from the same seed pack.

[Al@NC]

You asked if I had tried the Alaskian Fish Morbloom 0-10-10. I have not tried it but I will next year, I was searching for something more organic than the bloom booster that I have used for several years now...

I like the idea of 0-10-10, with it not providing nitrogen you should just promote blooms and fruit!

Al

[Spartanburg123]

Okay, first blushing fruit of this heart-shaped tomato. Still don't know whether it's a stray seed, or a bee cross. My gut tells me that this is actually a spontaneous mutation, as the leaves are massive and not spindly like the known varieties of heart-shaped tomatoes. I compared the leaf habit to the Omar's Lebanese next to it, from the same seed pack. Ripe pictures to come, along with a taste review!

Thanks for your interest....

Darin