Origin of Imur Prior Beta and Sterling Old Norway

[sjamesNorway]

Imur Prior Beta is listed as Norwegian in Tatiana's, and discussed as such in several posts in T'ville. Tatiana writes "According to Vent Marin, this variety was developed in Norway specifically for the areas with short summers." I find no reference to the variety on any Norwegian websites. There are seeds of three Norwegian varieties in the Norwegian Gene Resource Center (NorGen): Norderås Busk (Bush), Tante Ci (Aunt Ci), and Old Norway. The three are documented by Tatiana, who calls Old Norway "Sterling Old Norway" - because the source is said to be from the 1994 SSE yearbook and Sterling Illinois. NorGen has a different story, and calls it simply Old Norway (my translation):
"Grama (grandma?) Minnie Ethyl (Ethel?) Hooker got seeds from her father in 1899. and grew the variety in her garden in Paris, Michigan. She gave seeds to Seed Savers in 1972, and the variety has since been preserved there. The seeds came to NorGen in 2001, together with other vegetable varieties from Seed Savers."
As far as "Imur Prior Beta" is concerned, it doesn't sound Norwegian. Perhaps Tatiana's "Also known as: Early Swedish" is correct.

Steve

[PhilaGardener]

Interesting history! Are you growing these, @sjamesNorway ?

[RJGlew]

Steve,

Thank you for clarifying this and I am sure TomataBase can benefit from your research. I had sourced some IPB last winter since I thought it was Norwegian and might be a good early for me in 3a. Even if Swedish it's worth a shot, and is currently sitting on my 2016 grow list. Please keep us informed if you manage to track down & grow the actual NO varieties.

Thanks.

[carolyn137]

Here's a link you can spend some time with and I did the search here since I knew that all the ones you mentioned had been discussed here before, and by some folks from Norway and Sweden,

Some of the links are to just lists of growouts but others go into history.

The link goes back to the first year that Tville started in 2006.

http://tomatoville.com/search.php?se...=2075088&pp=30

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

[sjamesNorway]

I haven't grown any yet, but have ordered seeds for Norderås Busk from solhatt.no. I haven't been able to find seed for Tante Ci yet, but have read that it's being grown, so I'll keep trying and post here when I find them. I've also found a very good history entitled "Tante Cis' - a hundred year old, yellow tomato". When I have time, I will translate and post it. As far as the earlier SSE registered Old Norway, someone with access to these seeds will need to grow them (and hopefully make seeds available).

Carolyn, I was unable to follow your link. First I got a message that I didn't have access because I wasn't logged in, when I was. I tried to copy and paste to Google, and only got the T'ville advanced search page. Help!

Steve

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by sjamesNorway

I haven't grown any yet, but have ordered seeds for Norderås Busk from solhatt.no. I haven't been able to find seed for Tante Ci yet, but have read that it's being grown, so I'll keep trying and post here when I find them. I've also found a very good history entitled "Tante Cis' - a hundred year old, yellow tomato". When I have time, I will translate and post it. As far as the earlier SSE registered Old Norway, someone with access to these seeds will need to grow them (and hopefully make seeds available).

Carolyn, I was unable to follow your link. First I got a message that I didn't have access because I wasn't logged in, when I was. I tried to copy and paste to Google, and only got the T'ville advanced search page. Help!

Steve

Steve, my link didn't work for me either when I tried it right now, so don't feel that you alone were singled out.

When I have time I'll try to fetch it again, if I can find it again.

Carolyn

[Tormato]

I gave the last of my (Sterling) Old Norway seeds to Mudman (here at T'ville). However, he has not posted since 2013.

[sjamesNorway]

Originally Posted by Tormato

I gave the last of my (Sterling) Old Norway seeds to Mudman (here at T'ville). However, he has not posted since 2013.

Tatiana sells Sterling Old Norway seeds. I'd like to try them beside the "Grandma Hooker" Old Norway variety mentioned by NorGen and given to the SSE in 1972, but I can't find a seed source.

Steve

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by sjamesNorway

Tatiana sells Sterling Old Norway seeds. I'd like to try them beside the "Grandma Hooker" Old Norway variety mentioned by NorGen and given to the SSE in 1972, but I can't find a seed source.

Steve

Steve, there was no SSE until 1975 , no organization at all, and I think it was just a very few folks, local, who showed up at the first organizational meeting.


I may still have some yearbooks from those early years that I could look at but they are organized very differently from what they morphed to that it pains me to look for anything. I only joined SSE in 1989 but was sent I think all the back Yearbooks to 1975 after Craig L and I volunteered to get some of the wrong info out of the Yearbooks, but that never happened, not our fault.

Diane Ott Whealy former wife of Kent, they started SSE and Diane wrote a wonderful book about the history of SSE and sent free copies to all Lifetime members of which I'm one.

No, I haven't had time to go back and try to find that link again, but I did Google Hooker Norwegian tomato and no way am I going to send you the link that came up.

Carolyn

[sjamesNorway]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Steve, there was no SSE until 1975 , no organization at all, and I think it was just a very few folks, local, who showed up at the first organizational meeting.


I may still have some yearbooks from those early years that I could look at but they are organized very differently from what they morphed to that it pains me to look for anything. I only joined SSE in 1989 but was sent I think all the back Yearbooks to 1975 after Craig L and I volunteered to get some of the wrong info out of the Yearbooks, but that never happened, not our fault.

Diane Ott Whealy former wife of Kent, they started SSE and Diane wrote a wonderful book about the history of SSE and sent free copies to all Lifetime members of which I'm one.

No, I haven't had time to go back and try to find that link again, but I did Google Hooker Norwegian tomato and no way am I going to send you the link that came up.

Carolyn

Hi Carolyn. I've sent an e-post questioning the author of "Tomatoes from Norway" about their source for Old Norway seeds, and asking them about available seed sources for all these varieties. I've also asked if they have knowledge of Imur Prior Beta.

It's interesting that in the article, they write that Tante Cis (not Ci!) may be the same as Golden Queen.

MORE CONFUSION: Tatiana's Sterling Old Norway is pink, Restorationseeds.com has it as "yellow with red orange blossom end". If you google "tomatsorter fra norge" you'll find the NIBIO (Norwegian Institute for Bio-economy) site with a photo of "Hooker's Old Norway" (great name!) which looks to me like red with yellow shoulders. Perhaps even more intriguing - there's no mention of its being heart shaped! On the contrary, the author writes "[Old Norway] has a somewhat primative character, being uneven in form and color".

ps: Any luck contacting Dr. Lie?

Steve

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by sjamesNorway

Hi Carolyn. I've sent an e-post questioning the author of "Tomatoes from Norway" about their source for Old Norway seeds, and asking them about available seed sources for all these varieties. I've also asked if they have knowledge of Imur Prior Beta.

It's interesting that in the article, they write that Tante Cis (not Ci!) may be the same as Golden Queen.

MORE CONFUSION: Tatiana's Sterling Old Norway is pink, Restorationseeds.com has it as "yellow with red orange blossom end". If you google "tomatsorter fra norge" you'll find the NIBIO (Norwegian Institute for Bio-economy) site with a photo of "Hooker's Old Norway" (great name!) which looks to me like red with yellow shoulders. Perhaps even more intriguing - there's no mention of its being heart shaped! On the contrary, the author writes "[Old Norway] has a somewhat primative character, being uneven in form and color".

ps: Any luck contacting Dr. Lie?

Steve

OK Steve, try this link with lots of info about Norwegian varieties:

http://tomatoville.com/search.php?searchid=2076750

And no, I haven't tried to contact Sverre, but I will and that maybe when the snow flies since right now I've got far too much on my platter to deal with, as in Pm's, e-mails not yet answered. seeds to inventory so I can get my 2015 seed offer up before the US Open starts soon, and then trying to do moderating at both Tville and idig right now/

And Martha. who prepares meals for me since I can't doit anymore,just let me know this AM that she will probablyn eed a new hip, and then what do I do?

I guess lose some weight.

Just adding another link about Imur Prior Beta;

http://tomatoville.com/search.php?searchid=2076762

Carolyn

[BlackBear]

I started looking for Imur Prior Beta a few months ago then gave the search a rest till the next seed saving season ......

if anybody has located a source please post .

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

I started looking for Imur Prior Beta a few months ago then gave the search a rest till the next seed saving season ......

if anybody has located a source please post .

Yes, I have a source for you.

Several list it in the 2015 SSE Yearbook but that's no help unless you are an SSE member.Tania's page for it is:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/I...d_Availability

And YES, Glenn at Sandhill Preservation is still offering it in his current 2015 catalog and I assume you'd find the same info at the online..

http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/

Note that they do not accept seed orders all the time and state when they do. The reason for that is b'c Glenn has a full time job as a teacher at a local HS, his summers are spent doing huge growouts since he sells no tomato seed over two years old. And then all the time it takes at the end of the season to process seeds

I've known Glenn and Linda for many many years and they are two of the most honest friendly persons I've ever met.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Yes, I have a source for you.

Several list it in the 2015 SSE Yearbook but that's no help unless you are an SSE member.Tania's page for it is:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/I...d_Availability

And YES, Glenn at Sandhill Preservation is still offering it in his current 2015 catalog and I assume you'd find the same info at the online..

http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/

Note that they do not accept seed orders all the time and state when they do. The reason for that is b'c Glenn has a full time job as a teacher at a local HS, his summers are spent doing huge growouts since he sells no tomato seed over two years old. And then all the time it takes at the end of the season to process seeds

I've known Glenn and Linda for many many years and they are two of the most honest friendly persons I've ever met.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

oh thanks ....

I looked at Tatiana's page before and saw that the last listing available was 2013

and that Tatiana's sold out then ....

no listing 2014 no listing 2015 etc.

I had never considered that 2013 listing was still a possibility ...thanks

this is a big tip also for future seed searches

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

oh thanks ....

I looked at Tatiana's page before and saw that the last listing available was 2013

and that Tatiana's sold out then ....

no listing 2014 no listing 2015 etc.

I had never considered that 2013 listing was still a possibility ...thanks

this is a big tip also for future seed searches

Tania can only list seed sources from those companies that send her what they are offering, and with respect to Sandhill no doubt Linda was so far behind working on the online version that she didn't send that information.

With few exceptions Tania has not been able to update ANY of the sources for 2015, except when she is offering that variety.

She has some health issues that have prevented her from doing the updates.

Carolyn