Determinates outperforming Indeterminates

nniemiec · September 9, 2016

Has anyone else experienced substantially better health/production out of determinates?

There's NO comparison - my indeterminates aren't nearly as healthy or productive. For comparisons sake - i do grow in a self-watering container system - 18 gallon totes - i live in Chicago.

This is my 1st year growing determinates. As much as I love heirloom/indeterminate varieties, most of them are underperforming in what is considered a very good weather/season for gardening in Chicago.

what's your experience?

Ricky Shaw · September 9, 2016

Complete opposite for me this year, I may never grow another determinate again. They were magnets for mold and BER with too much foliage for the amount of set fruit.

Totally understand these shortcomings are mine, and are the result of my methods, but the fact remains. That 4 out of 5 plants were perfect tomato growing machines and all the ones that weren't were GWR, black, or determinate.

nniemiec · September 9, 2016

do you grow in containers?

joseph · September 9, 2016

I much prefer determinates. I grow in an open field in a cold mountain valley. With my short season, I need to grow as much fruit as possible in as little time as possible. The indeterminates that I plant grow plenty of foliage, but often times they are just starting to make a few ripe fruits before they are killed by frost.

Ricky Shaw · September 9, 2016

Yes I grow in fabric and poly bags. What does best are medium to light foliage regular and potato leafs where there's less competition between fruit and foliage.

I very much prefer only a morning watering/feeding per day, I'm lazy and the plants stay healthier not being overly wet going into cool nights.

Cole_Robbie · September 9, 2016

Ricky, did you grow Maglia Rosa? That variety seemed invincible to BER in my garden, when everything else got it badly.

Scooty · September 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Ricky, did you grow Maglia Rosa? That variety seemed invincible to BER in my garden, when everything else got it badly.

Sheesh... A lot of water I take it.... Did the melons split too?

Cole_Robbie · September 9, 2016

I had no rain at all in June, which caused the BER, and then nothing but rain in July, which made everything else split. My own melon patch got eaten by grass, but thankfully I planted a back-up patch at my cousin's house, which is producing.

Ricky Shaw · September 9, 2016

Cole Robbie,

I haven't tried Maglia Rose, thank you for that suggestion. The BER was trouble on 8 of 36 plants, and most had absolutely no problem. Same amount of water and feed in the same media, comparable plant size and container. The problem varieties were EM-Champion, Marglobe, Moskovic, Rose de Berne.

Instead of changing the program to accommodate problem tomatoes, I'll just concentrate on tomato varieties that enjoy my methods. Fortunately, that appears to be most of them.

Gardeneer · September 10, 2016

In my experience mid season dets are better. Right now my dets are ripening more tomatoes than indets and in big quantities. The exceptions are dark tomatoes like Black from Thula, Sara Black (look alike).
On BER I would do as Ricky wants to do. I blame BER mostly on varietal sensitivity to inconsistent moisture level. All these year I have had BER problem just with Roma and San Marzano. So I simply stopped growing them. No more BER.

GrowingCoastal · September 10, 2016

Last year I had no BER on any variety. This year Early Girl had it badly and the Roma had only 2 fruits with it. The differences between the two years are the weather and the soil mix in my containers was wetter due to the addition of compost which was not used last year.

Gerardo · September 10, 2016

I dig determinates. Joseph's HX-9, Lyana, Alka, Copper R, and a bunch of Gribovsky growing right now, they load up nicely.

When fed and the sun is abundant, they green up again and flower a 2nd time, although less pronounced. MagliaR gave me two full harvests.

Determinates provide fewer opportunities for attacks on all fronts. I don't mind the relatively small size, they pack a punch.

Cole_Robbie · September 10, 2016

I have found determinates to come in all plant sizes. I tried to replace Taxi with Sol Gold in the high tunnel this year. Taxi grows plants bigger than me, but Sol Gold was about 1/3 the size. It would be a good variety for a cramped low tunnel.

So I never have any idea how big a variety is going to get, for me at least, until I grow it. Seed company descriptions don't help. Johnny's calls Taxi a "compact determinate." Mine grow like trees. There's nothing compact about it.

Lindalana · September 11, 2016

Nniemiec, I hope you will continue to grow more and join our plant swap next Memorial Day Friday, which is run every year in Evanston. I usually grow 50 to 80 heirloom varieties of tomato seedlings which are given away to plant enthusiasts.
I do mostly field grow but containers as well. Majority of my plants are indet but I also start early in WOW so my results may be different. What I have found that every year it will depend what weather is going to hold when your tomatoes go into high production and thus stressed the most. Cold chilly nights and few bad rains will give you bunch of fungal/ bacterial problems in a matter of days and then dets are just not going to have power to outgrow and produce new foliage and keep going same way indet do. So it could be hit or miss.
I have a number of indet that preform really well for Chicago area and will be happy to share seeds or seedlings with you to try.

September 9, 2016	#1
nniemiec Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: chicago Posts: 48	Determinates outperforming Indeterminates Has anyone else experienced substantially better health/production out of determinates? There's NO comparison - my indeterminates aren't nearly as healthy or productive. For comparisons sake - i do grow in a self-watering container system - 18 gallon totes - i live in Chicago. This is my 1st year growing determinates. As much as I love heirloom/indeterminate varieties, most of them are underperforming in what is considered a very good weather/season for gardening in Chicago. what's your experience?

September 10, 2016	#10
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,919	In my experience mid season dets are better. Right now my dets are ripening more tomatoes than indets and in big quantities. The exceptions are dark tomatoes like Black from Thula, Sara Black (look alike). On BER I would do as Ricky wants to do. I blame BER mostly on varietal sensitivity to inconsistent moisture level. All these year I have had BER problem just with Roma and San Marzano. So I simply stopped growing them. No more BER. __________________ Gardeneer Happy Gardening !

September 10, 2016	#12
Gerardo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Diego-Tijuana Posts: 2,598	I dig determinates. Joseph's HX-9, Lyana, Alka, Copper R, and a bunch of Gribovsky growing right now, they load up nicely. When fed and the sun is abundant, they green up again and flower a 2nd time, although less pronounced. MagliaR gave me two full harvests. Determinates provide fewer opportunities for attacks on all fronts. I don't mind the relatively small size, they pack a punch. Last edited by Gerardo; September 11, 2016 at 02:44 AM.

September 9, 2016	#2
Ricky Shaw Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Zone 6a Denver North Metro Posts: 1,910	Complete opposite for me this year, I may never grow another determinate again. They were magnets for mold and BER with too much foliage for the amount of set fruit. Totally understand these shortcomings are mine, and are the result of my methods, but the fact remains. That 4 out of 5 plants were perfect tomato growing machines and all the ones that weren't were GWR, black, or determinate.

September 9, 2016	#4
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	I much prefer determinates. I grow in an open field in a cold mountain valley. With my short season, I need to grow as much fruit as possible in as little time as possible. The indeterminates that I plant grow plenty of foliage, but often times they are just starting to make a few ripe fruits before they are killed by frost.

September 9, 2016	#6
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Ricky, did you grow Maglia Rosa? That variety seemed invincible to BER in my garden, when everything else got it badly.

September 10, 2016	#11
GrowingCoastal Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Vancouver Island Canada BC Posts: 1,253	Last year I had no BER on any variety. This year Early Girl had it badly and the Roma had only 2 fruits with it. The differences between the two years are the weather and the soil mix in my containers was wetter due to the addition of compost which was not used last year.

September 11, 2016	#14
Lindalana Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 857	Nniemiec, I hope you will continue to grow more and join our plant swap next Memorial Day Friday, which is run every year in Evanston. I usually grow 50 to 80 heirloom varieties of tomato seedlings which are given away to plant enthusiasts. I do mostly field grow but containers as well. Majority of my plants are indet but I also start early in WOW so my results may be different. What I have found that every year it will depend what weather is going to hold when your tomatoes go into high production and thus stressed the most. Cold chilly nights and few bad rains will give you bunch of fungal/ bacterial problems in a matter of days and then dets are just not going to have power to outgrow and produce new foliage and keep going same way indet do. So it could be hit or miss. I have a number of indet that preform really well for Chicago area and will be happy to share seeds or seedlings with you to try.