So, what's new in tomato culture

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Ted,I did not see that Andy was dictating anything,rather,just reporting back in book form his own research in the area as many before him have done in various areas..

And I'm not so sure I'd believe Ph.D's,however many, can always be objective,regardless of the Universities they are associated with since the only Ph.D's I know,such as Dr.David Francis at Ohio State University,have their own objectives in what they want to accomplish in their breeding programs.

The best Ph.D I know and have known him for a long time is Dr.Randy Gardner, formerly of the University of NC ,now retired,but still actively breeding tomatoes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dr+R..._AUIBygA&dpr=1

I used to send him heirloom varieties ,he asked for them,to incorporate in his breeding programs and also trialed some varieties for him and Darrel (Fusion)also knows him well as does Tom Wagner since Randy was very generous in sending some of his germplasm to others.Randy was the one who bred the very popular Mountain series,and the first F1 that had a bit of tolerance for Early Blight,and several more.

Also the one who more recently bred Mountain Magic, Plum Regal and I can't remember the third one right now, all F1's and MM was the one that I and many others loved the best as to taste and many have now used it in their own breeding programs b/c of all the tolerance disease genes and other genes that were bred into it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=moun..._AUIBygA&dpr=1

I couldn't believe it when Randy sent me huge amts for all three and I made a separate seed offer for them here at Tville,where many got them. He had contracted with Bejo to do the seed production for all 3 but there were problems,which is why he sent those seeds to me so that others could experience them.

Eventually Bejo got the seed production done and they showed up everywhere such as Johnny's,Territorial TGS and many more places also.

So,as for me and my tribe,I don't equate having a Ph.D in this area as always being objective.

Whatever,I was just trying to help.

Carolyn

Well, Carolyn, we are both saying the same thing. Most of the books I've found have references and so forth, but I said that about the PHD's just to emphasize that Will Tracey was not just a "good ole boy" talking over his head. And, I just don't think that Smith is the sole authority on the history of the tomato. I believe there are "some" facts in all the documents and books, and I just think that I can isolate those facts better if I expose myself to more than one opinion. Smith was good, but he is just one piece of the puzzle.

BTW, I follow Randy on Facebook. He's got some new stuff in both tomatoes and Peppers that are gorgeous.

[Lee]

The best Ph.D I know and have known him for a long time is Dr.Randy Gardner, formerly of the University of NC ,now retired,but still actively breeding tomatoes.

Dr. Gardner worked at North Carolina State University, not UNC.
UNC has no ag department whatsoever.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Lee

Dr. Gardner worked at North Carolina State University, not UNC.
UNC has no ag department whatsoever.

Lee,he wasn't in the ag dept,he was at the experimental station in Fletcher which was just south of Asheville.

And I know that b/c when my brother and family moved to NC he was having all sorts of problems with tomato diseases, I tried to help, and I was about to ask Randy to drive up there, my brother lives just 20 miles N of Ashville,from the experimental station to help make a diagnosis.

When he retired he spent and still spends time at the old family farm in Virginia in the summer,where he does his tomato breeding,but moves back to his home near the Experimental station for the winter in Fletcher.

https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/fletcher/staff/rgardner/

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I beg to differ on that one my friend.
Isabella of Castile was married to Ferdinand of Aragon and those two countries became known as Spain.
And they were at constant odds with Portugal.
Columbus first asked Portugal King John II to fund his trip to the Indies and was turned down several times, He then asked if he would be allowed to leave which he did.

In 1494 the Treaty of Tordesillas formed the Tordesillas line that circled the entire globe.
Everything in the west belonged to Spain known as the crown of Castile and everything in the east belonged to Portugal.
That line ran right through what is now known as Brazil and is the reason it was settled be by the Portuguese and not Spain.
And one of the reasons Vasco da Gama sailed around the Cape of good hope and becoming the first European ship to ever enter the Indian ocean in 1497.

Portugal was founded 1139 after the Muslims/Moors were kicked out after a rule since 711
If Columbus would have been funded by Portugal is is very likely he would have never been seen again lost at sea fighting the winds.
As he would have sailed from the Azores and not the Canary islands.
As luck would have it the winds were in his favor to drop him right in the middle of the East Indies

As for the tomatoes, I have always known or suspected that many types were brought over as well as the peppers.

Worth

Worth,much of what you posted is correct,but please read the following link and note when the EMPIRES of Portugal and Spain were joined.

(The Portuguese and Spanish Empires came under a single rule, but resistance to Spanish rule in Portugal did not come to an end. The Prior of Crato held out in the Azores until 1583, and he continued to seek to recover the throne actively until his death in 1595. Impostors claimed to be King Sebastian in 1584, 1585, 1595 and 1598. "Sebastianism", the myth that the young king will return to Portugal on a foggy day, has prevailed until modern times.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Portugal

And as I recall they were still one area, not two,when Cortez brought back those yellow small tomatoes from South America.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cortez

Carolyn

[ContainerTed]

And everybody please remember that history is being rewritten every day. New research and exploration are changing everything we were taught in schools. I love it and it makes day to day living much more exciting as more and more discoveries are made. Civilization's beginning is being pushed further and further back in time. Who was first to discover what is finding new answers. Human history is being pushed back millennia, and the theories we were taught are falling by the wayside.

It's good to be alive right now. Common sense is prevailing and more of the mainstream is receptive to the new data that supports some of the ignored findings of yester year. How could it be any better?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Worth,much of what you posted is correct,but please read the following link and note when the EMPIRES of Portugal and Spain were joined.

(The Portuguese and Spanish Empires came under a single rule, but resistance to Spanish rule in Portugal did not come to an end. The Prior of Crato held out in the Azores until 1583, and he continued to seek to recover the throne actively until his death in 1595. Impostors claimed to be King Sebastian in 1584, 1585, 1595 and 1598. "Sebastianism", the myth that the young king will return to Portugal on a foggy day, has prevailed until modern times.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Portugal

And as I recall they were still one area, not two,when Cortez brought back those yellow small tomatoes from South America.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cortez

Carolyn

Cortes brought the tomatoes back from (North America) not South America in 1521.
North Americas continent stops at Panama but Panama Costa Rica Honduras Nicaragua and Guatemala are commonly called Central America.

Portugal was still under its own rule and had a vast empire.
That little controversy didn't happen until 1580.

Hard to imagine but at that time little Portugal was a world super power that went broke trying to stay a super power.

As far as the United States of America is concerned we as children are told more about the English and their settlements like Jamestown and Plymouth Rock.
At that time Spain controlled much of what is called the USA today.
I live in a state that used to be it's own country that before then was controlled by Spain before the first English ever colonized New England.
This is where the term Six Flags over Texas comes from.
It was ruled or part of by Spain France Mexico The republic of Texas The Confederate States of America and the United States of America.
I live at least twice as close to the origin of those tomatoes than I am to New England
Worth

[carolyn137]

Cortes brought the tomatoes back from (North America) not South America in 1521.
North Americas continent stops at Panama but Panama Costa Rica Honduras Nicaragua and Guatemala are commonly called Central America.

*****

Actually he brought them back from Mexico where he was trying to eliminate the Aztec Empire, so where does Mexico fit in your geography? I think I know but....

Carolyn

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Cortes brought the tomatoes back from (North America) not South America in 1521.
North Americas continent stops at Panama but Panama Costa Rica Honduras Nicaragua and Guatemala are commonly called Central America.

*****

Actually he brought them back from Mexico where he was trying to eliminate the Aztec Empire, so where does Mexico fit in your geography? I think I know but....

Carolyn

Mexico is in North America, there is no country named America.
North America is a continent not a country.
I get this all the time from people complaining about folks not speaking English in America, well they dont have to.
The song God Bless America messed everyone up but I guess it sounded better than God Bless the United States.
Carolyn I have spent a considerable amount of time reading about the conquest of the Americas.
What those people grew how they grew it, what they ate and how they lived.

To keep it on the gardening subject the Incas king would die and they still raised food for him no one could eat.
They didn't consider death the way we do it was another part of life.
Picture it like all of the wheat grown in the US is reserved for dead people and no one can have any.
I know in my heart that if I were to go back in time and saw what these people were growing there would be a huge variety of tomatoes peppers squash and corn.
Some of that corn/maize they grew I have in my house to this day.

[Worth1]

The cave in Mexico.
The one where they found all of that stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guil%C3%A1_Naquitz_Cave

Simply amazing how long ago these folks were selectively breeding and planting crops.
They did more with maize than we ever have, it is virtually unchanged since our discovery of America from what it came from.
Worth

[Gardeneer]

"America " now is a short version that stands for " United States Of America".
JMO

[ContainerTed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guil%C3%A1_Naquitz_Cave

Great link, Worth1

As I have said many times before, we are rewriting history more and more every day. This wonderful information age is forcing mainstream archeology to examine the evidence is open discussions, and the real logical conclusions seem to be prevailing.

HOORAY for truth. I like ginger2778's signature, "Science is truth". I love the fact that we're getting more "science" today.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guil%C3%A1_Naquitz_Cave

Great link, Worth1

As I have said many times before, we are rewriting history more and more every day. This wonderful information age is forcing mainstream archeology to examine the evidence is open discussions, and the real logical conclusions seem to be prevailing.

HOORAY for truth. I like ginger2778's signature, "Science is truth". I love the fact that we're getting more "science" today.

Ted we can thank the Arch duke Ferdinand and his wife Sophi for much of this
Let me explain..
It brought on WWI which in turn brought on WWII.
When the Vets came back from the war they got the opportunity to go to school on VA benefits.
Many of which would have never been able to before.
This allowed a whole knew group of people to enter collage other than the rich good old boys.
It was also the beginning of the age of women going to school.
Even more free thinkers in the mix.
With so many free thinkers what used to be gospel started to crumble but it was an up hill battle all the way.
One of those free thinkers was Anna Roosevelt great grand daughter of Theodor Roosevelt.
But if you get a chance to talk to her talk about her work not her being kin to Theodor Roosevelt.
I cant put my books on line but I can give a link to her.
Along the river bank they have found evidence of 7,500 year old pottery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Curtenius_Roosevelt
They are just now beginning to realize or at least accept just how vast and civilized society was in the Americas.
For years they stood on the so called assumption the Egyptians were here.
You cant have this without agriculture.
Look at this pottery it is unbelievable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...DSC06177_b.jpg
Worth

[ContainerTed]

Worth1, I would have to talk to her about Theodore. My mother named me after him. She told me that the charge up San Juan Hill was the deed that sparked me being named after Teddy Roosevelt. So, Theodore after the President and Ernest after my dad.