Pressure treated lumber and raised beds - Page 3

Jimbotomateo · December 7, 2016

Guy told me one time his friend needed exactly 15 feet of cord for some project. He had a 50 cord already so he plugs it into outlet measures off 15 feet takes out dykes and cuts it. Jimbo.

Worth1 · December 8, 2016

Well I guess a person could use real concrete blocks instead of cinder blocks.

As for the nuts and bolts the new torx drive screws are the bomb.
And some sort of 4×4 post on the corners and midway down the sides for support.
Worth

rockman · December 9, 2016

30yrs ago I built a treated deck, no carpenter bees yet. 3yrs ago raised my beds with treated 2x4's. 8 rows 60'x30" each, leaving a mowers width of grass between each row. Looks nice and less work all around. The bees started drilling their holes before I finished the project. Whatever the treatment is now days, my garden boards from Menards are showing serious wear.
rockman

PaulF · December 10, 2016

For several years I had raised beds and used railroad ties as the structure. Creosote or coal tar was the main preservative used and is now banned by the EPA for use in landscaping. I did wrap the ties with thick clear plastic sheeting where the wood was in contact with the soil. This was not done for any safety reason as the risk of creosote contamination was not on my mind. It was done just to keep the railroad ties from deteriorating. We have since moved from that location so they are not in use. I don't know how the new homeowner disposed of the ties, but there is a stringent protocol for the disposal of creosote treated railroad ties...if anybody really follows EPA directions.

More recently we built raised bed herb gardens with treated lumber and I have no qualms with using the new pressure treated lumber.

Worth1 · December 10, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulF

For several years I had raised beds and used railroad ties as the structure. Creosote or coal tar was the main preservative used and is now banned by the EPA for use in landscaping. I did wrap the ties with thick clear plastic sheeting where the wood was in contact with the soil. This was not done for any safety reason as the risk of creosote contamination was not on my mind. It was done just to keep the railroad ties from deteriorating. We have since moved from that location so they are not in use. I don't know how the new homeowner disposed of the ties, but there is a stringent protocol for the disposal of creosote treated railroad ties...if anybody really follows EPA directions.

More recently we built raised bed herb gardens with treated lumber and I have no qualms with using the new pressure treated lumber.

I still see them used or not removed.

As far as I am concerned the EPA can go stick it.
Not because I dont care for my health or environment but because they dont do what we wanted them to do when they were formed.
They allow things to happen and collect fines.
To me that is more like a pollution tax.

Worth

PaulF · December 10, 2016

I agree about the EPA. They all have boat payments to make and are only in it for the money. Whichever group finances them, that's where they lean. DEQ is the same. Slippery slope comments, I know.

Worth1 · December 10, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulF

I agree about the EPA. They all have boat payments to make and are only in it for the money. Whichever group finances them, that's where they lean. DEQ is the same. Slippery slope comments, I know.

I dont consider non debatable comments about this stuff as slippery slopes.
It has nothing to do with elections or that sort of thing.
I didn't make my comments out of hear say they are about of what I have seen and know.
Also what I have seen DOW and a few other fine folks do.
Like waiting for the fog to roll in at night to pump the black smoke out of the stacks at the polystyrene plant, what you guys call Styrofoam.
Product stream not hot enough they dump not right they dump.
Once it gets to the right temperature it is then made into product.
For ten years I watched it happen.
We would get in before the fog lifted flares running hot with black smoke.
Then as the fog lifted and the sun was up they would shut them back.
That same black smoke you get when you burn Styrofoam.
This is why I wont buy the crap it isn't safe from factory to table.
The whole darn area down there is called cancer alley by people.
Every block I worked in was a suspected or proven carcinogen.
I came home smelling like a chemical plant every day as a contractor.
The Employees of Dow and other companies had showers and lockers to change clothes.
Big signs up, Don't Bring it Home to your family.
We had no showers and a change of clothes they wouldn't let us use theirs and we had to bring it home.
Many times not even allowed to use their sinks to wash our hands and use the bathrooms before we ate.
Because we were lowly contractors treated like scum.

Too me it makes no sense to worry about the treated lumber to then go out and warm something up in the microwave in Styrofoam.
Not saying anyone here does but just saying.

I'm sorry I frigging hate plastics.

Worth

whoose · December 11, 2016

What affect will using treated lumber have on the individual, it is up to your beliefs and risk tolerance.

When is come to affecting others (family, friends or customers) it is more of the responsibility of the grower.

In sum, if you as an individual want to expose your self to any number of environmental risk factors, fine do it. But when it come to others you must mitigate the risk.

Cole_Robbie · December 11, 2016

I admire the good intentions behind your concerns. But if you're trying to keep kids away from treated lumber, you'd have to practically never let them go outside. The outside world is full of the stuff. Playground equipment, outdoor decks patios and porches, any posts in the ground holding up anything like awnings or shelters, picnic tables, landscape timbers.

Treated lumber permeates our modern existence. I have to wave the white flag on this one and realize I'm never getting away from it.

zeuspaul · December 11, 2016

Prior to 2004 wood was treated with arsenic and chromium. I would be more concerned about this older lumber.

If you purchase new pressure treated lumber it probably has some kind of copper compound which is most likely less toxic. However there are now numerous compounds for treating lumber so making generalizations about the safety of pressure treated lumber is a little speculative.

Worth1 · December 11, 2016

As was said we all have our limits as to what we choose to expose ourselves to.
My limit is that nasty Styrofoam.

Worth

Jimbotomateo · December 11, 2016

Had an old German dr for years here in town. One day he showed me his license he was born in 1902. He said him and other kids would run circles round the local dr car cuzz dr had only car in town and roads were so poor he could only go bout 1mph.lol. When penicillin was discovered he would let orange mold in bowl stick needle in and give shot! He had no idea how much he was giving but no harm was done cuzz it was all natural! Later penicillin was synthetic and caused some allergic reactions. He told me he wouldn't prescribe new medications for seven years after they were approved by FDA. He said that process kept him from maiming people for life so many times! He worked til he was 89! My wife and I would go in sick he'd say close the door give us both a shot talk to us for bout an hour and charge us twenty bucks! Lol. My wife couldn't get me to get new dr for years after he retired.lol.

pecker88 · December 12, 2016

I Have pressure treated 2x8's on 1 side of raised beds, the other side is creosote railroad ties...no issues here.

Sometimes the best approach is just to go for it and not do so much research.

Gardeneer · December 13, 2016

First, when it is a personal decision, that is it : PERSONAL choice.
But talking about it is just talk.
My question(s) ( as I have raised before ) is (are) : How much of that bad stuff can leach out, where / how doe it travel ? I don't think that it will spread side way/horizontally.
Then if it did travel horizontally and made its way to my tomato plant, will the plant uptake it ? and How much ? If the plant DID uptake it, will it end up on my tomato ? How much ?
By probability science , probably there should be negligible amount or nothing of it in the tomato fruit that I will eat. JMO

bower · December 13, 2016

I am in the camp of avoiding the risks by keeping treated wood out of my garden. We use untreated planks to make raised beds, and although it's a wet climate they have lasted plenty years in my garden and my Mom's. The past couple of years I've been using just the scrap lumber I had lying around from the first greenhouse that we rebuilt about ten years ago. That lumber had been coated with double boiled linseed oil when it was built, and I have nothing but good to say about the stuff. It does extend the life of the lumber and makes it unattractive to ants and other wood eatin bugs. I mean, this is lumber that gave about ten years of service already as a greenhouse, and a fair bit of it is still solid and ready for new uses after 25 years.

Yes I have some plank that rotted over time, and when I see it's becoming a habitat for bugs and rots I use those pieces to enclose the bottom of that year's compost pile and makes it look neater. It doesn't have to be sturdy for that purpose, only one good side. And when they are too far gone for a compost border, I put them in the woods. One idea that turned out well was to use short pieces to improve a path in the woods where it's mossy and rocky. The moss comes up around them and they've made a level path. Still waiting for them to rot away, they look fine to me in a decaying state in the woods context.

If the ordinary fir lumber was rotting away every two years, I would see it differently, but for us, the life cycle of untreated lumber is not too bad, and certainly much better with a bit of linseed oil.

It would be easy for me to cut spruce rails and make beds, the trouble is the bark is too appealing to insects.

And a lot more work to strip it off. Lazy me!

December 10, 2016	#34
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,297	For several years I had raised beds and used railroad ties as the structure. Creosote or coal tar was the main preservative used and is now banned by the EPA for use in landscaping. I did wrap the ties with thick clear plastic sheeting where the wood was in contact with the soil. This was not done for any safety reason as the risk of creosote contamination was not on my mind. It was done just to keep the railroad ties from deteriorating. We have since moved from that location so they are not in use. I don't know how the new homeowner disposed of the ties, but there is a stringent protocol for the disposal of creosote treated railroad ties...if anybody really follows EPA directions. More recently we built raised bed herb gardens with treated lumber and I have no qualms with using the new pressure treated lumber. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

December 10, 2016	#36
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,297	I agree about the EPA. They all have boat payments to make and are only in it for the money. Whichever group finances them, that's where they lean. DEQ is the same. Slippery slope comments, I know. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

December 11, 2016	#38
whoose Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Bozeman, Montana Zone 6b Posts: 333	It Comes Down to This What affect will using treated lumber have on the individual, it is up to your beliefs and risk tolerance. When is come to affecting others (family, friends or customers) it is more of the responsibility of the grower. In sum, if you as an individual want to expose your self to any number of environmental risk factors, fine do it. But when it come to others you must mitigate the risk.

December 13, 2016	#44
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,924	First, when it is a personal decision, that is it : PERSONAL choice. But talking about it is just talk. My question(s) ( as I have raised before ) is (are) : How much of that bad stuff can leach out, where / how doe it travel ? I don't think that it will spread side way/horizontally. Then if it did travel horizontally and made its way to my tomato plant, will the plant uptake it ? and How much ? If the plant DID uptake it, will it end up on my tomato ? How much ? By probability science , probably there should be negligible amount or nothing of it in the tomato fruit that I will eat. JMO __________________ Gardeneer Happy Gardening !

December 7, 2016	#31
Jimbotomateo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Santa Maria California Posts: 1,014	Guy told me one time his friend needed exactly 15 feet of cord for some project. He had a 50 cord already so he plugs it into outlet measures off 15 feet takes out dykes and cuts it. Jimbo.

December 8, 2016	#32
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Well I guess a person could use real concrete blocks instead of cinder blocks. As for the nuts and bolts the new torx drive screws are the bomb. And some sort of 4×4 post on the corners and midway down the sides for support. Worth

December 9, 2016	#33
rockman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: fortville,IN 46040 Posts: 140	30yrs ago I built a treated deck, no carpenter bees yet. 3yrs ago raised my beds with treated 2x4's. 8 rows 60'x30" each, leaving a mowers width of grass between each row. Looks nice and less work all around. The bees started drilling their holes before I finished the project. Whatever the treatment is now days, my garden boards from Menards are showing serious wear. rockman

December 11, 2016	#39
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I admire the good intentions behind your concerns. But if you're trying to keep kids away from treated lumber, you'd have to practically never let them go outside. The outside world is full of the stuff. Playground equipment, outdoor decks patios and porches, any posts in the ground holding up anything like awnings or shelters, picnic tables, landscape timbers. Treated lumber permeates our modern existence. I have to wave the white flag on this one and realize I'm never getting away from it.

December 11, 2016	#40
zeuspaul Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: North County, San Diego Posts: 419	Prior to 2004 wood was treated with arsenic and chromium. I would be more concerned about this older lumber. If you purchase new pressure treated lumber it probably has some kind of copper compound which is most likely less toxic. However there are now numerous compounds for treating lumber so making generalizations about the safety of pressure treated lumber is a little speculative.

December 12, 2016	#43
pecker88 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 192	I Have pressure treated 2x8's on 1 side of raised beds, the other side is creosote railroad ties...no issues here. Sometimes the best approach is just to go for it and not do so much research.

December 13, 2016	#45
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	I am in the camp of avoiding the risks by keeping treated wood out of my garden. We use untreated planks to make raised beds, and although it's a wet climate they have lasted plenty years in my garden and my Mom's. The past couple of years I've been using just the scrap lumber I had lying around from the first greenhouse that we rebuilt about ten years ago. That lumber had been coated with double boiled linseed oil when it was built, and I have nothing but good to say about the stuff. It does extend the life of the lumber and makes it unattractive to ants and other wood eatin bugs. I mean, this is lumber that gave about ten years of service already as a greenhouse, and a fair bit of it is still solid and ready for new uses after 25 years. Yes I have some plank that rotted over time, and when I see it's becoming a habitat for bugs and rots I use those pieces to enclose the bottom of that year's compost pile and makes it look neater. It doesn't have to be sturdy for that purpose, only one good side. And when they are too far gone for a compost border, I put them in the woods. One idea that turned out well was to use short pieces to improve a path in the woods where it's mossy and rocky. The moss comes up around them and they've made a level path. Still waiting for them to rot away, they look fine to me in a decaying state in the woods context. If the ordinary fir lumber was rotting away every two years, I would see it differently, but for us, the life cycle of untreated lumber is not too bad, and certainly much better with a bit of linseed oil. It would be easy for me to cut spruce rails and make beds, the trouble is the bark is too appealing to insects. And a lot more work to strip it off. Lazy me!