Need advice at Crucial point.. - Page 3

murihikukid · January 5, 2017

Patti..Thanks for the explanation...I considered giving my new seedlings a 1/4 cup of a weakened Miracle Gro but I thought I better not risk it,,,If somebody can tell me the fertilizer to give them I would be very grateful ...i presume in America all these special products are available off the shelf....Now re the 6 x $22 Tasty Toms I have ...after the initial scare I believe its a soil imbalance but I really need help with them...Goodness knows how these plants were grown to the stage they are as they are more like a tree than a tomato but they are producing fruit ...The problem i see is pruning these ..to be honest I would not know where to start ...they have great laterals on them and I wonder if they would grow roots ....
It seems if I miss watering them everyday they immediately wilt..I had a couple of scares but water picked them up .....

There is no let up with the wind here ..its terrible ...so again I am going to have to take a gamble if I am to spray all the greenhouse...the plants have to come inside for 24 hours or as long as it takes the spray to dry and the wind will have to die down.....and while I remember ..yes the polystyrene boxes,capilary cloth etc were all washed/soaked in bleach prior to use .there are soil barrels and freezers in the greenhouse which have to be put outside first and then the plants will be next....The only place I see inside is on top of my Freezers ?? I have little space as it is..

Now you mention alternating between two products....Is it OK to do this ...My Thiram sprayed plants now require a follow up ...I thought of giving them a spray of Copper/Sulphate when I did all my other plants but decided against it in case there was a reaction with the Thiram...

Regards Ron

MissS · January 5, 2017

You really do not need to feed your seedlings until they have their first set of true leaves. Many people do not feed them anything until plant out. I am one that will feed my seedlings that have their first true leaves. I use a 1/2 of the recommended dose of Miracle Gro and feed them every 10 days.

As far as your new plants, I still have not ruled out that it is not Early Blight. Of course, I have been wrong before, but I think that you have blight as well as deficiencies going on there. The reason that I think you have early blight is due to the browning and drying of the leaves in the center of each yellowing patch. For your sake, I do hope that I am wrong. I would avoid starting any new cuttings from these plants until you have given them a clean bill of health. All you would be doing is perpetuating your problems. Get them clean and healthy before creating more plants and more problems. Most greenhouse growers keep their plants pruned to one or two stems. But knowing you, you will not be doing this. So then may I suggest that you keep these plants a good 3-4 feet apart. Only allow 3 stems and keep the interior of the plants leaves well pruned. You will need to give these very good support and try to keep the stems well separated to allow ventilation. Your bed frames will be good for this. Your new plants need to be re-potted ASAP. They are drying up and are under-fed due to lack of space. Their roots are pot-bound and need room to roam. They can not function in such a restricted space.

It is OK to alternate between 2 fungicides. It is the only way that I know of to be assured that you are covering all of your bases. You need one good for gray molds and such and another for powdery mildew and then make sure that one of those is good for septoria. I must say that I have never used Thiram, so I would suggest that first you remove all dead and dying leaves, then spray just a small section on one plant to see if there is any harm done before you go spraying all of your plants. My gut says that you should be OK.

murihikukid · January 5, 2017

Patti..My New seedlings are well past the first set of true leaves..so i will give them a small amount of a 1/2 strength MG Solution.... I am re propagating the failures and they should appear soon ...
Re the new plants ..the Manager is due back on Monday....I will hopefully discuss it with her....These plants I know have to be attended to ASAP..I have sprayed them with the Copper/Sulphate Fungus Spray ..and these plants are so thick and strong that even I know they cannot support the stems they have for much longer...I now have all the Coarse Perlite I need to make up my mix and repot them ...I will do the one I was given first using the Worth1 method.....I have a plan to spray my greenhouse but not for the baking sodaed plants except water them and see what eventuates and try not to be so stupid again..

It looks like Thiram could be a good product and along with Yates NaturesWay Fungas Spray be the answer to most problems....But these plants that I am trying Thiram on were so "poor" when I bought them I wonder If any will survive and produce fruit ...Certainly warmer weather sunshine would help ..Its like the middle of Winter...

I never knew this...That the company growing these plants is actually here in Invercargill...so my suggestion to the manager that surely one of their experts could pop in and reasure me that the plants are not carrying any disease that could get on my seedlings is not such a huge request to ask for........

Next season I will have all my own seeds?? propagated very early with no need to buy from gardening centres ......Maybe I can even find out how they get their plants like the ones I bought...My gut feeling is that these have had special "treatment" to get growth like they have....

Regards Ron..

MissS · January 6, 2017

Ron, you are well aware that you have too many plants to grow in your greenhouse. How about you cut your losses and just dispose of the plants that you used baking soda on? Yes the plants are resilient and will put forth new growth from the tops and send out some side shoots, but you do not have the space, you do not know if they are cured and can you afford to take further chances infecting more plants just to see if what you did worked? Get rid of the plants that will take up so much of your time and energy and spend your time growing some nice healthy plants. It will take weeks for these plants to recover and even if they do it will be far too late in the season to have much production. Put these aside and concentrate on the new.

I am happy to see that the greenhouse turned out so well and that you had no major accidents. I was worried about that.

~ Patti

murihikukid · January 6, 2017

Patti....You are right .....I have re examed the Baking soda plants and most are had it....I would like to save the "stump of the world' if I can but I have propagated new seeds for it...
I am out in the greenhouse shifting everything around to one end ..Freezers are going out as are the soil barrels ...Its quite amazing there is plenty of room at one end for my plants ....??? i will curtain the empty end off and clean and spray....Then The plants will come down to that end so the other part can be done ...Then I will set up exactly where I want my plants and set it up....

Also I still have small black flies round the freezers in my house.....I have 3 trays of seedlings so theses will be moved into my side room along with my propagator ...while I clean the freezers and spray around with fly spray ....then they will be put back in....Of course my seedlings will soon be able to be put out in my greenhouse.....
I just emailed my friend in Canada about these lights ...they go up to 24W /1800lm ..white light ...I wonder if they would be suitable in my new greenhouse...The Glassdoor I put aside for a sliding front door has no wheels on it...I can possibly get one down from the roof exactly the same with wheels but would need help...Fancy making a mistake like that..

Regards Ron

MissS · January 8, 2017

Gosh darn, there is always something that can go wrong. Can you buy new wheels for the door? It would certainly be much easier than pulling a door down and raising another up.

Go ahead and try to save Stump. It's a good tomato. I thought that you would get mad at me for suggesting that you throw the other plants away, so I am glad that you are not. You have to start somewhere thinning out your plants and this is just the obvious start. If you do not get your plants thinned out, you will be having some major problems the whole way through and perhaps loosing all of your plants in the process.

murihikukid · January 8, 2017

Hi Patti...Yes probably one could buy new wheels but one would have to take the door down to put them on?? I anticipate haveing 50 seedlings coming on so I know I have to get rid of some or maybe a lot...and talking about seedlings here we go again...#40 cell a Reistintrabe has just appeared planted on Dec 6th....in my propagator ...I had already put a failed mark on it on my JPG lay out that I use to keep track of everything...Is it only me that gets these (what to me) is amazing ...That why I always reseed in a succeeded cell just in case a failed one wants to appear??

So I used my better jusgement and bought all the tomatoes inside Last night..This was after the garden centre gave me a lecture on the dangers of Jeyes Fluid and trying to block 1/2 of the greenhouse off....I got up early this morning and found my sprayer which I could not find last night....Everything has been sprayed top to bottom ...the freezers ,the washing machine tubs ..everything was washed ...and now I nearly have all the tomatoes back in the greenhouse simply because it only has what is necessary in it....The winds today have been horrific...these plants need sunshine...
My #22 Tasty Toms are two heavy for the stake ...I had to be so carefull moving them inside but they are back out with no damage ...The Mega 10 Manager may visit me tomorrow and depending on her visit hopefully I can go ahead and do what is required >>I am hoping she may give me a partial refund after all I have been buying fungicides for them....There are some leaves that have turned yellow and look as though they are drying up but I do not think its bad?? with Powdery Mildew and using the Yates Natures Way Fungas spray ..it leaves a powder on the leaves when it dries ..being copper and sulpher I presume its the sulpher ...

With this weather I presume Tunnel houses are being destroyed ...just like last season so there will be a lot of sad tomato growers around....
Now talking about Fungicides ...Particularly Daconil and Serenade ...I have quite a lot of information from the government dept ...but have been too busy to read it... they were excellent and told me that Chlorothalonil may soon be placed on the prohibited list as they are concerned about the damage to human's health......No problem with Serenade's main ingrediant...its just the amount one has to buy?? I wonder If you have ever tryed it..

Apart from my baking soda plants everything else is looking healthy ...I must repot my Eva Purple Ball and check some of the others cause they are priority to me...
I better get the last tomatoes moved out of the house...Regards Ron

murihikukid · January 8, 2017

Patti..Would you be willing to give me guidance pruning my $22 TT's.....They have to be repotted and they will have to be pruned first...I have photos but I wonder if I should do this on another thread ......Initially I want to concentrate on the bottom of the stem ....remembering that these will go in a much larger drum so there will have to be the removal of the leaves and laterals from the bottom of the stem....this leaves the question what is the criteria for choosing my second stem and a third if that is possible....

These plants are getting top heavy in their pots and will blow over in a gust of wind which has lowered today but is coming from the east and not the prevailing west direction ....
Regards Ron

MissS · January 9, 2017

Ron I have not tried Serenade myself, but I have heard very good reports from those that have used it. I also hear that it is a bit pricey, but those that have bought it would not trade it out for any other. For me, copper and Daconil work just fine and are far cheaper to use. So if you can afford to use the Serenade, go for it by all means.

Sure I will help you to prune your plants in another thread. How about you put it in the General or the Container sections. Did you get any reimbursement for these plants?

Many of us have seeds that have germinated far past their expected times. Some of us find the sprouted seeds in dumped piles of soil, others find them in pots tossed aside. Most often these are old seeds but some varieties have a history of needing to go to the devil and back before they decide to sprout.

The plants grown down there without their tunnels can grow just fine. Down in Florida we had a major hurricane that hit the gardens badly. The plants survived and they are now having the best tomato crop in many years. The tomato plants actually do very well in windy conditions. They like the air circulation. They just either need to be allowed to sprawl on the ground or have a sturdy caging system. Most of us use far sturdier cages than you use.

MissS · January 9, 2017

Ron, here is a VERY GOOD thread which is currently going on about the use of fungicides. For you, I think that it is a "MUST READ".

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...t=43441&page=2

murihikukid · January 9, 2017

Patti...Serenade or similar is available from Bayer NZ ...but in a commercial amount...I still have not read the papers the govt advised me of that tell me about every fungicide available in the country....I will put a thread up about pruning in the container section as there may be some tips forthcoming on repotting ...and should water be applied maybe Seasol....
I want to start repotting today....Just quietly and I really do not feel comfortable about this ...I got a full refund on the Tasty Toms which was extremely good of them but if they produce fruit like I hope they will ..my conscience may ★★★★★ me as I eat them ....I will of course take some up to the Manager or to old peoples homes if there is too many..
I will get my photos up on a new thread...I think it will be straight forward after I get an understanding of the stems i should keep on the lower part of the plants..I will send the link when I get it..

Regards Ron....

murihikukid · January 9, 2017

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...850#post609850
Patti...I wonder if the photos will help much ..I hope they do ....Yes I have to see at least if any lateral pruned will grow??? Its really going to be good seeing these repotted.... Regards Ron..

January 5, 2017	#32
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,150	You really do not need to feed your seedlings until they have their first set of true leaves. Many people do not feed them anything until plant out. I am one that will feed my seedlings that have their first true leaves. I use a 1/2 of the recommended dose of Miracle Gro and feed them every 10 days. As far as your new plants, I still have not ruled out that it is not Early Blight. Of course, I have been wrong before, but I think that you have blight as well as deficiencies going on there. The reason that I think you have early blight is due to the browning and drying of the leaves in the center of each yellowing patch. For your sake, I do hope that I am wrong. I would avoid starting any new cuttings from these plants until you have given them a clean bill of health. All you would be doing is perpetuating your problems. Get them clean and healthy before creating more plants and more problems. Most greenhouse growers keep their plants pruned to one or two stems. But knowing you, you will not be doing this. So then may I suggest that you keep these plants a good 3-4 feet apart. Only allow 3 stems and keep the interior of the plants leaves well pruned. You will need to give these very good support and try to keep the stems well separated to allow ventilation. Your bed frames will be good for this. Your new plants need to be re-potted ASAP. They are drying up and are under-fed due to lack of space. Their roots are pot-bound and need room to roam. They can not function in such a restricted space. It is OK to alternate between 2 fungicides. It is the only way that I know of to be assured that you are covering all of your bases. You need one good for gray molds and such and another for powdery mildew and then make sure that one of those is good for septoria. I must say that I have never used Thiram, so I would suggest that first you remove all dead and dying leaves, then spray just a small section on one plant to see if there is any harm done before you go spraying all of your plants. My gut says that you should be OK. __________________ ~ Patti ~

January 6, 2017	#34
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,150	Ron, you are well aware that you have too many plants to grow in your greenhouse. How about you cut your losses and just dispose of the plants that you used baking soda on? Yes the plants are resilient and will put forth new growth from the tops and send out some side shoots, but you do not have the space, you do not know if they are cured and can you afford to take further chances infecting more plants just to see if what you did worked? Get rid of the plants that will take up so much of your time and energy and spend your time growing some nice healthy plants. It will take weeks for these plants to recover and even if they do it will be far too late in the season to have much production. Put these aside and concentrate on the new. I am happy to see that the greenhouse turned out so well and that you had no major accidents. I was worried about that. ~ Patti __________________ ~ Patti ~

January 8, 2017	#36
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,150	Gosh darn, there is always something that can go wrong. Can you buy new wheels for the door? It would certainly be much easier than pulling a door down and raising another up. Go ahead and try to save Stump. It's a good tomato. I thought that you would get mad at me for suggesting that you throw the other plants away, so I am glad that you are not. You have to start somewhere thinning out your plants and this is just the obvious start. If you do not get your plants thinned out, you will be having some major problems the whole way through and perhaps loosing all of your plants in the process. __________________ ~ Patti ~

January 9, 2017	#39
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,150	Ron I have not tried Serenade myself, but I have heard very good reports from those that have used it. I also hear that it is a bit pricey, but those that have bought it would not trade it out for any other. For me, copper and Daconil work just fine and are far cheaper to use. So if you can afford to use the Serenade, go for it by all means. Sure I will help you to prune your plants in another thread. How about you put it in the General or the Container sections. Did you get any reimbursement for these plants? Many of us have seeds that have germinated far past their expected times. Some of us find the sprouted seeds in dumped piles of soil, others find them in pots tossed aside. Most often these are old seeds but some varieties have a history of needing to go to the devil and back before they decide to sprout. The plants grown down there without their tunnels can grow just fine. Down in Florida we had a major hurricane that hit the gardens badly. The plants survived and they are now having the best tomato crop in many years. The tomato plants actually do very well in windy conditions. They like the air circulation. They just either need to be allowed to sprawl on the ground or have a sturdy caging system. Most of us use far sturdier cages than you use. __________________ ~ Patti ~

January 5, 2017	#31
murihikukid Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Invercargill New Zealand Posts: 1,022	Patti..Thanks for the explanation...I considered giving my new seedlings a 1/4 cup of a weakened Miracle Gro but I thought I better not risk it,,,If somebody can tell me the fertilizer to give them I would be very grateful ...i presume in America all these special products are available off the shelf....Now re the 6 x $22 Tasty Toms I have ...after the initial scare I believe its a soil imbalance but I really need help with them...Goodness knows how these plants were grown to the stage they are as they are more like a tree than a tomato but they are producing fruit ...The problem i see is pruning these ..to be honest I would not know where to start ...they have great laterals on them and I wonder if they would grow roots .... It seems if I miss watering them everyday they immediately wilt..I had a couple of scares but water picked them up ..... There is no let up with the wind here ..its terrible ...so again I am going to have to take a gamble if I am to spray all the greenhouse...the plants have to come inside for 24 hours or as long as it takes the spray to dry and the wind will have to die down.....and while I remember ..yes the polystyrene boxes,capilary cloth etc were all washed/soaked in bleach prior to use .there are soil barrels and freezers in the greenhouse which have to be put outside first and then the plants will be next....The only place I see inside is on top of my Freezers ?? I have little space as it is.. Now you mention alternating between two products....Is it OK to do this ...My Thiram sprayed plants now require a follow up ...I thought of giving them a spray of Copper/Sulphate when I did all my other plants but decided against it in case there was a reaction with the Thiram... Regards Ron