Name this tomato...

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

I choose to go by Tania's site for names/descriptions as the seeds I received labeled Cuor Di Bue match what she describes - http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Cuor_Di_Bue versus http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Cuore_Di_Bue

That's to do with specific named varieties in her database.

But dropping the final "e" is a regional linguistic thing in Italy. Ever wonder why so many NY/NJ area Italian Americans call mozzarella "muzzadell" and pronounce prosciutto as "pro-shoot"? It's not because they're ignorant. It's because the inherited the words from their immigrant ancestors from southern parts of Italy where the dialect dropped final vowels.

As Italian becomes more standardized, fewer people speak that way. But it lingers on in stubborn places like names of food like cuor(e) di bue.

All I'm saying is that if you insist in Italy that only the pink heart variety listed in Tania's database is correctly called "cuor di bue", people will look at you the same way you'd look at someone who insisted that only the tomato plant labeled "beefsteak tomato" at your local big box store could be correctly called a beefsteak.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

The Franchi Red Pear is a cuore di bue type.

The Italians and the French call 2 types of tomato cuor(e) di bue/coeur de boeuf. One is this fluted piriform type. The other is the "classico" type, which is what we think of when we think "oxheart". Calling the piriform one "cuor di bue" is more common in Italy.

There are varieties that are called simply "cuor(e) di bue" or "coeur de boeuf", just like there are varieties that we encounter which are simply called "oxheart". But, just as "oxheart" is also a generic name for a type of tomato and is also a part of the official variety names of many oxheart varieties, "cuor(e) di bue" works the same way--except that, in the English speaking world "oxheart" means actual heart shapes, whereas in many European countries, it means either the heart shape or the large piriform.

Italian wikipedia page for cuor(e) di bue describes both types.

Piriform called "coeur de boeuf" on Tania's tomatobase.

French wikipedia page about coeur de boeuf also describes both types.

Even the German speaking world calls the piriform "Ochsenherz" ("oxheart").

I can only read about 20 words of Russian anymore, but it does seem to me that the Russians agree with Americans on the fact that "oxhearts" are only the truly heart shaped varieties (broad shoulders, narrow bottom).



That's too bad! I'm surprised. Franchi Red Pear was the last of my plants to get any kind of fungal disease in my garden. Super productive for me and delicious.

Yes, Gor. Oxheart, beef heart ... are just shape descriptors not varieties, like cherry, grape.

On the subject of disease magnets, it so happened that the hear shape varieties got the disease. The other one was Darin's Dotson's Lebanese Heart. The other plants next to them were perfectly healthy. I pulled them. But took cutting from Franchi or CDB. Now they are growing. The Franchi that I pulled replanted in my compost pile. Still alive. Very wisbily. hehe. A volunteer cherry in that pile is thriving fine. I have another diseased magnet. It is Old German. I just let it be, as an experiment. This tells me that varieties have differen level of immunity and resistance.
Sorry for the detour, Big V.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

I know that guy grafts so grafting may be the reason they seem bigger than what the descriptions say.

Franchi Red Pear produced some big fruits for me. The larger ones were about the size in the video. It also produced medium and small fruits--not a consistent producer size-wise. So I think the farm in the video is either growing a hybrid, or those are the fruit they've sorted for large size.

EDIT: Or maybe they're culling later fruit on the trusses to encourage the earlier ones on each truss to get bigger?

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

That's to do with specific named varieties in her database.



But dropping the final "e" is a regional linguistic thing in Italy. Ever wonder why so many NY/NJ area Italian Americans call mozzarella "muzzadell" and pronounce prosciutto as "pro-shoot"? It's not because they're ignorant. It's because the inherited the words from their immigrant ancestors from southern parts of Italy where the dialect dropped final vowels.



As Italian becomes more standardized, fewer people speak that way. But it lingers on in stubborn places like names of food like cuor(e) di bue.



All I'm saying is that if you insist in Italy that only the pink heart variety listed in Tania's database is correctly called "cuor di bue", people will look at you the same way you'd look at someone who insisted that only the tomato plant labeled "beefsteak tomato" at your local big box store could be correctly called a beefsteak.

My first language was a southern Italian dialect and we did not drop final vowels. I was first generation, and many of my schoolmates growing up who were first and second generation southern Italians also did not drop final vowels. If you ask me, the dropped final vowels is a NY/NJ phenomenon, not something that originated in Italy.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

My first language was a southern Italian dialect and we did not drop final vowels. I was first generation, and many of my schoolmates growing up who were first and second generation southern Italians also did not drop final vowels. If you ask me, the dropped final vowels is a NY/NJ phenomenon, not something that originated in Italy.

So you're saying because your particular dialect didn't drop vowels, none do?

It's not just some parts of the south. It's also many parts of the north, especially near Switzerland and France, that people drop vowels.

Depending on which school of classification you follow, Italy still has anywhere between a dozen to just under 20 main dialects today.

Many of them still drop vowels, although it's rarer these days for people to speak in strong dialect.

You can hear many of them here: http://www.hull.ac.uk/G62/g62home/sa...lect_audio.htm

[gorbelly]

Here's a great article on the NY/NJ Italian pronunciation.


How Capicola Became Gabagool: The Italian New Jersey Accent, Explained

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

So you're saying because your particular dialect didn't drop vowels, none do?



It's not just some parts of the south. It's also many parts of the north, especially near Switzerland and France, that people drop vowels.



Depending on which school of classification you follow, Italy still has anywhere between a dozen to just under 20 main dialects today.



Many of them still drop vowels, although it's rarer these days for people to speak in strong dialect.



You can hear many of them here: http://www.hull.ac.uk/G62/g62home/sa...lect_audio.htm

I'm just saying that all the Italians I knew growing up (most of us were from Sicily, Calabria, Puglia, Basilicata and Abruzzo) never dropped vowels. When I was young I spent two months in Calabria and Basilicata and I never heard dropped vowels. The first time I ever heard an "Italian" dropping vowels was on the first episode I watched of the Sopranos.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

I'm just saying that all the Italians I knew growing up (most of us were from Sicily, Calabria, Puglia, Basilicata and Abruzzo) never dropped vowels. When I was young I spent two months in Calabria and Basilicata and I never heard dropped vowels. The first time I ever heard an "Italian" dropping vowels was on the first episode I watched of the Sopranos.

Here's a page with some good links, including a site that has audio recordings of modern poets who write in dialect. If you browse that, you'll see that many dialects cut off what in Standard Italian would be a final vowel.

I honestly have no explanation for why you've never heard an Italian speak in a manner than de-emphasizes, swallows, or drops vowels at the ends of words because it's a very well documented phenomenon.

All I can say is that, when my family gets together, we all speak in a particular southern Korean dialect. But when we hang out with the larger Korean community, we more or less speak standard Seoul Korean, albeit with an accent. That doesn't mean the way we talk amongst ourselves doesn't exist.

But if I go back to my family's hometown in Korea, people think I'm crazy because nobody my age speaks like I do anymore there.

In addition, much of my dad's family, which was higher class, speaks closer to standard Seoul Korean while my mom's family, which was more working class, all have a really strong regional accent and use dialect words very thickly.

And when I visit parts of Europe where I speak the language but the locals speak a particular version of the language, people don't speak to me in the local "color". They speak very standard French, German, etc. to me--because I'm obviously not a local who is necessarily to understand them if they use the local slang, etc.

These are all factors in how one experiences language.

[zipcode]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

Well if anyone could link me to a greenhouse hybrid version I'd appreciate it. I can't find any.

https://www.rijkzwaanusa.com/find-yo...o/rugantino-rz

[BigVanVader]

I just found it http://www.tomatobomo.com/en/170315-...-f1-aurea.html

A intern for the farm had told the name in one of her post. Took 2 days but I found it

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

I just found it http://www.tomatobomo.com/en/170315-...-f1-aurea.html

A intern for the farm had told the name in one of her post. Took 2 days but I found it

I linked to an alternate US source for this in post #9.

[BigVanVader]

I missed that Oh well at least I know 100% that is it at least. Pretty freaking expensive too.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

I missed that Oh well at least I know 100% that is it at least. Pretty freaking expensive too.

How much seed are you looking to buy?

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

How much seed are you looking to buy?

I really only need 25 but will likely buy 100 just in case.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

I really only need 25 but will likely buy 100 just in case.

The Ricciolo F1 from Franchi is cheaper and will let you buy in packs of 20.

There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to graft that onto rootstock as well.