Interested in Growing a Multiflora Dwarf?

[dfollett]

As I was answering a PM request for dwarf multiflora seed, I got to thinking…..

Not long after I started this thread about multiflora dwarfs, I shifted my focus almost exclusively to working with micros – multiflora and not. Probably as a result of that there haven’t been many multiflora dwarfs shown here – mostly micros. Virtually all the F3 and later seed I have sent and have available to send out has been selected for micro. Anything larger than micro that I start anymore gets culled at the F2 stage.

What we really need is someone (several someone’s actually) who would like to start a bunch of F2 seed and hunt for their own multiflora dwarfs. I have F2 seed from quite a few crosses that I think have tremendous potential. I just lack the bandwidth to do that hunting - and lack the time, space and motivation.

The crosses with indeterminates will be about 25% dwarf – which are very easy to identify at the baby seedling stage. Of those dwarfs, about 25% will be multiflora (some will also be micros). To find the multiflora without wasting garden space, grow extra and leave them in their 4” cups until then show blossoms. Plant the multifloras.

The crosses with dwarfs will all be dwarfs or micros – mostly dwarfs. They will also show the same 25% multiflora. If that sounds interesting to anyone, let me know what you are most interested in and I’ll provide as much F2 seed as you are willing to try.

[oakley]

I've posted my interest many times but I should probably do a
PM...and have many trays ready for 'hunting'.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by oakley

I've posted my interest many times but I should probably do a
PM...and have many trays ready for 'hunting'.

I'm apparently thick-headed and missed it. How many would you like to try and would you rather work with indeterminate crosses or dwarf crosses? Let me know if there is a cross you would like to try, or I can select something.

[tryno12]

Is to "cull" mean kill, just we don't want to kill any of our little babies or is it the 'ending" of what is thought as a less desirable strain or cultivar?
Thanks
Pete

[oakley]

Snip, clip, kill. = Cull.

[tryno12]

[oakley]

Originally Posted by dfollett

I'm apparently thick-headed and missed it. How many would you like to try and would you rather work with indeterminate crosses or dwarf crosses? Let me know if there is a cross you would like to try, or I can select something.

My bad. I was never specific and had not really made any selections.
What I have going now, F6, are looking so good I'm getting bored.
So easy to grow and not at all demanding for Winter growing.
I'll go back through and see what I'm looking for. Probably fuzzy or stripes, maybe
fern leaf. Definitely what might stay micro without support. Under 12". Larger fruit
like a large cherry/saladette. That said, I still can't decide,

[oakley]

Tryno, this is one tray that is getting crowded. They are in 4" pots and will be
for another month. The arrow points to 2 plants in one pot. Rather than separate
I'll just snip/cull/kill the weak one. (or maybe not, still deciding)
I will move them this weekend to a larger tray with empty 4" pots between each
plant staggered to give them growing room.

[Al@NC]

Craig might give you some inpiration Oakley to break those roots apart !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLbeZEcz3sw

[oakley]

Not afraid to cull. It is about real estate. I want to move forward a few more micro
varieties...

Good to link that video though. Lets anyone 'watching' to see how other methods can
succeed without getting to fussy. Like this row I need to deal with this weekend,

Then I will have two empty cell trays ready and cleaned up for more.

[jmsieglaff]

Don't fear the culling.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by tryno12

Is to "cull" mean kill, just we don't want to kill any of our little babies or is it the 'ending" of what is thought as a less desirable strain or cultivar?
Thanks
Pete

Oakley is correct. But then, so are you. It is actually "the 'ending" of what is thought as a less desirable strain or cultivar".

Sorry to insert heartless cruelty into your gardening experience, but it is necessary. For example, from a cross between and black PL indeterminate and a red dwarf, if you want to find a dwarf (1 of 4) that is PL (1 of 4) that is multiflora (1 of 4) that is black (1 of 4) you will have to start 256 plants to have a reasonable chance of finding one.

Dwarf and PL can be identified by the time they have two sets of true leaves. With a quick snip of the scissors you can avoid potting up 94% (240) of the seedlings because you know they aren't what you want. After potting up the 16 that are dwarf PL, you can watch until they show blossoms. You can then eliminate the 75% (12) of that 16 that aren't multiflora and only plant out the four that are PL, dwarf and multiflora. Unfortunately, you have to wait until they ripen to see their color. If you are lucky, one of them will be black. But what will it taste like?

Each additional recessive characteristic you add to the wish list multiplies by 4 the number you have to start with to get the one you want. Some factors - taste and fruit size for example - are probably controlled by numerous genes instead of one, so the odds get even longer. So, to get a Black PL multiflora dwarf with great taste, you may need to find a couple of dozen or more black PL multiflora dwarfs... And you have to start with 256 plants to get each one.

Without the heartless culling, you'll NEVER get there unless you're the luckiest person on the planet.....

The journey to a micro is even longer..... That's why people who don't understand the statistical odds of finding something specific grow out a few of an unstable strain and are disappointed they didn't find the next greatest variety.

I'd like a few new crosses to grow this year. I knew you had posted all
of them somewhere, but where? So I've just started at the beginning
and finally found the list -

It is message 306.

Now to decide which I'd like.

[jmsieglaff]

19xF2 micro candidates. 9 will be selected for final spots in the coming couple of weeks. Hopefully at least a couple multiflora. Bottom picture is the one that has my eye right now, it has a unique leaf shape—looks like some wild tomato genetics might be coming through.

[tryno12]

Thanks for the visual w/explanation Oakley - look as if I have the same dilemma and had the same face as you did looking at a flat that I culled out and transplanted a week ago - I still have the Solo cups w/2 plants each to deal with in a month or so if they are micro's and are still happy that long.................
Pete