Cherry tomato poll?

[Fred Hempel]

"So it means that some of the desired Sungold traits may ONLY come in the first crossed generation, where the mother and father genetics are different?
(Still kind of going over my head)"

Yes. That's basically it.

[goodwin]

Fred is right about the genetics. However, we found that by 'following our nose' we could capture many of the traits we wanted from Sungold. As you know, the foliage of Sungold has a distinctive aroma which is also found in some wild relatives. By selecting for that trait in the F2 growout and each subsequent generation, it is possible to get to something very close to the F1 hybrid eventually.
Lee

[Tormato]

You followed your nose quite well with Ambrosia Gold. It's the closest thing to SunGold that I've trialed.

[AKmark]

Originally Posted by goodwin

Yes, those are mine. It was difficult stabilizing the genetics as Sungold is a parent along with a wild accession. There is a long thread here somewhere about that project.

Lee

Well you have a fan club going, and there will be many more after this Spring.

[KarenO]

Ambrosia gold is great. Whether it was 100% stable at the time I’m not completely sure but it is a parent of the KARMAS along with captain lucky so thank you Lee for a great tomato.
KarenO

[e.thad]

I grew 20 Sungold plants from F2 seeds (the F2 I used for seeds was especially sweet). 15 were same color as SG, 5 were red. They all acted and tasted the same as SG — cracking and all. There was one F3 that had some toms that were sweeter than SG. It was grown right next to my F1 SG.

My sense of smell isn't that great. I never noticed that SG F1 smelled different, so I don't know about the smell of my SG F3.

At the end of this past season I was able to get F4 seeds from a red volunteer that fell from an F3.

Have others been able to get to the F4 stage with SG and have either the same plant as SG or better? If so, what happened with future generations?

[Nan_PA_6b]

My mom had 2 F2 Sungold volunteers that looked and tasted exactly like SG F1. I saved F3 seeds but haven't done anything with them.

[MI Farmer]

I voted for Sun Gold, but I think Sun Sugar is a bit better. It just doesn't crack/split as much, and has the same wonderful flavor.

[ddsack]

Just goes to show our taste buds sense things differently.

In Sun Sugar I can taste the same or even more sweetness, but it has none of the fruity citrus-like zing that only Sun Gold F1 has, and is so hard to capture in dehybridization. I think that uniqueness of taste is why so many people rate it tops.

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by ddsack

...the fruity citrus-like zing that only Sun Gold F1 has, and is so hard to capture in dehybridization. I think that uniqueness of taste is why so many people rate it tops.

I find it interesting that folks are so determined to grow dehybridized SunGold varieties when the results they deliver are pretty spotty. Myself, I'll spend a few bucks on the real deal to be assured of getting the taste/quality, and reward the breeder for their fine efforts. I plan to grow SunSugar F1 again this summer, but I just don't see it standing up against SunOrange F1, which is Tokita's new `improved' SunGold.

[ddsack]

I plan to grow SunSugar F1 again this summer, but I just don't see it standing up against SunOrange F1, which is Tokita's new `improved' SunGold.

So how would you describe the difference between SunOrange vs SunGold? More acidity? More of the complex citrus flavor? Larger size and less splitting? I would like to try more of the various Tokita varieties, but to tell the truth I'm not that fond of cherries, so tend to grow only four or five varieties at a time, mostly to give the plants to other people. My most requested varieties are SunGold F1, Black Cherry and Snow White, so that doesn't leave much room for experimenting with others.

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by ddsack

Just goes to show our taste buds sense things differently.

In Sun Sugar I can taste the same or even more sweetness, but it has none of the fruity citrus-like zing that only Sun Gold F1 has, and is so hard to capture in dehybridization. I think that uniqueness of taste is why so many people rate it tops.

"none of the fruity citrus-like zing that only Sun Gold F1 has"


Ditto

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by ddsack

So how would you describe the difference between SunOrange vs SunGold? More acidity? More of the complex citrus flavor? Larger size and less splitting? I would like to try more of the various Tokita varieties, but to tell the truth I'm not that fond of cherries, so tend to grow only four or five varieties at a time, mostly to give the plants to other people. My most requested varieties are SunGold F1, Black Cherry and Snow White, so that doesn't leave much room for experimenting with others.

My Observations:
1. SunOrange definitely ripens earlier than SunGold. For me in 2018 that was 2 weeks, last summer was slightly less than a week. This is important for me in Zone 3a. I see you are also in Zone 3 in MN. Cook County?
2. SunOrange does not split as much as SunGold does, especially later in the season.
3. The taste (from my perspective) is the same; but I don't have the tools to measure subtle differences in Brix/pH etc.
4. The size of SunOrange is slightly bigger than SunGold.
5. Productivity per plant is basically the same.

If you want to try other Tokitas then consider SunChocola vs Black Cherry, and SunCherry Extra Sweet vs your current best red. Seeds n' Such has small packet sizes of both these at reasonable prices.

[e.thad]

Originally Posted by RJGlew

I find it interesting that folks are so determined to grow dehybridized SunGold varieties when the results they deliver are pretty spotty. Myself, I'll spend a few bucks on the real deal to be assured of getting the taste/quality, and reward the breeder for their fine efforts.

I'm saying my F3 tasted better than Sungold F1. I got a bunch of F2 volunteers a couple of summers ago that tasted good. One of them tasted great so I used that one to grow out, just for fun and interest. If future generations go well, then I'll have something more stable than an F1 for crossing. Just a fun experiment to me.

Hope that gives you some insight on why someone might end up growing out a Sungold.

[ddsack]

Many thanks for your Sun Orange review, RJ, I will want to do the side by side on it too myself, with SunGold before I am convinced.

My favorite red cherry, is Iva's Red Berry. I may try SunChocola and the other Tokita cherries at some point, one per season. I don't mind buying hybrid seeds if there is something extra special about the tomato, though I prefer open pollinated to ensure that I never run out of seeds. I also don't care for thick skinned crunchy cherries, which more hybrids tend towards, I suppose to avoid splitting.

(I am in Beltrami county and though I have a shorter season than many, like to grow the full sized heirlooms for taste.)