does ANYBODY like Ponderosa?

[greggf]

I've noticed that in 1965-1990 mainstream seed catalogs, often the only "heirloom" and sometimes the only open pollinated varieties available were Oxheart and Ponderosa. And that they were readily available everywhere.

Also, the only tomato variety that my father ever identified by name - and with a drool - was Ponderosa. I get the impression that he'd eaten one about 1935 and that it had tasted out-of-this-world.

But today, it's hardly mentioned.

Questions:

1) Does anyone here grow it and like it?

2) Was my father demented or just tomato-starved one summer?

3) If it has fallen out of favor because of lack of flavor compared to hipper heirlooms, why was it one of the few so widely available for so long? Why did it persist in the face of so many hybrids? How did it manage to remain available when better heirlooms were stuck in back yards or discontinued? Who made these decisions?

[jwr6404]

gregg
I'll be interested in your responses to the Ponderosa aka Henderson's Ponderosa. I just purchased and received seeds for this variety along with the Henderson's Crimson Cushion and Winsall. If you dont have seeds I'll be glad to send you some of each . I only grow 1 plant of each variety and different varieties each year and usually toss the remaining seeds. I have a small garden and there are a lot of tomato's to try and at 12 per year and my 70 years of age I don't know how many tomatoes are in my future,hopefully 360.

[carolyn137]

Gregg, I've grown Ponderosa, Red Ponderosa, aka Crimson Cushion, as well as Yellow Ponderosa, all released by the Henderson Seed Co and releases starting back in the early 1900's with Ponderosa being the first.

Ponderosa is a very good variety but I find I much prefer the variety Wins All which was developed by the Henderson Seed Co as an improvement on Ponderosa.

It was named Wins All b'c there was a naming contest and this improved Ponderosa won lots of awards and thus the winning name.

I'm surprised a bit that you haven't seen it listed in earlier catalogs b'c it was and is a very popular variety.

As for Red Ponderosa I find that there are quite a few large red beefsteak varieties that are heirlooms, not commercial ones such as Red Ponderosa, that I like better.

And I can make the same comment for Ponderosa itself in that there are plenty of large pink beefsteak heirlooms whose taste and production and lack of blemishes that I prefer over Ponderosa.

But that's just my experience with these varieties.

So why not grow Ponderosa and grow Wins All for a comparison or throw Large Pink Bulgarian or Omar's Lebanese or several others I could mention into the mix and do some comparing.

Are you sure you can grow these large beefsteak varieties in your area and get them to mature?

(3) If it has fallen out of favor because of lack of flavor compared to hipper heirlooms, why was it one of the few so widely available for so long? Why did it persist in the face of so many hybrids? How did it manage to remain available when better heirlooms were stuck in back yards or discontinued? Who made these decisions?)

Only you can tell if the taste is similar to current large pink heirloom beefsteaks. Hipper heirlooms? C'mon now Gregg, back when Ponderosa was so popular there were none to few so called heirloom varieties that were available outside the families that maintained them. So no comparisons could be done, really.

it was available for so long b'c it was one of the few large pink beefs that folks liked back when it was introduced and word was just passed on.

From the early 1900's to about 1950 to 1960 there were very few hybrids available to the home gardener.

I don't get your last question as in who made the decisions. Decisions about what?

All of the three Ponderosas are still available and certainly Wins All even more available, you just have to look in the right places to find them.

[greggf]

Jim,

Thanks for your offer, but Carolyn got right to the heart of it when she asked if I can ripen large beefsteak varieties in my location. It's not likely. But if I tried, I'd be able to get seeds from Victory, along with other seeds, among other places.

I don't have many pre-1965 catalogs. I'm sure Ponderosa and Wins All are in them, but others would have to say.

By decisions, I mean who (and why, more importantly) at Burpee, etc., decided that Oxheart and Ponderosa would be the token holdovers from the OP era? Why those two out of thousands, if better OP tastes lurked in home gardens of the era?

[Lomatia]

Where does Ponderosa Pink (or Pink Ponderosa) fit into the mix?

[barkeater]

This was the coldest summer in the 5 years I've grown here in zone 3, and the first time I ever grew Wins All. It was the best beefsteak heirloom in the garden, and obviously cold tolerant as it set fruit when most others were dropping blossoms.

My Wins All gave me 28.79# of fantastic fruit, and was one of a very few that tasted great at the very end. I hate to say it, but it was even better tasting than Brandywine this year, and looked almost just like it, but larger.

Its my new favorite tomato!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Lomatia

Where does Ponderosa Pink (or Pink Ponderosa) fit into the mix?

I'm not sure what you're asking when you say where does it fit in the mix.

Ponderosa is pink so calling it Pink Ponderosa is a bit redundant.

I did give the order in which the Henderson Seed Co released the Ponderosa varieties in my post above. Is that what you meant by where does it stand in the mix? it was the first one released right after 1900 but I'd have to check the date on that to confirm the exact date.

If I'm reading you worng please share with me what you meant by the "mix"?

[Lomatia]

Pink Ponderosa is listed in the TGS catalogue. My query was a name thing re its validity. I think that you might have answered my question.

[greggf]

bark,

Where'd you get your Wins All seed? Sounds promising.

Brandywine from Johnny's and SSE was great one year, a dud 6 other years up here. It's really too bad that it was so good once - I keep thinking I need to grow it each year, "just in case," but there comes a point in time where a tomato becomes a mere flirt and you need to take a pass and find others.

=gregg=

[barkeater]

gregg,

I got them from Totally Tomatoes. But, if you want to try some, send me a PM and I'll send you some from the batch I got. You never know if next years will be the same. I plan on bagging blossoms next year of my favorite OP's so I won't have to worry about purchasing crossed seed in the future.

[shelleybean]

Barkeater, did your Wins All seed from Totally Tomatoes give you RL or PL plants? I see it listed as both all over the place but I believe the true Wins All is RL.

[greggf]

thanks for the offer, barkeater, but I'm just at the stage of deciding what goes in the garden next year, so I'm not sure on what's what yet

and by the way, is it just me, or is this planning stage always the most fun part of tomatoes?!

[barkeater]

Michele, my Wins All was a big, potato leaf plant.

I'd say the planning stage is fun, especially because it lasts all winter, but the high point for me is planting day.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by shelleybean

Barkeater, did your Wins All seed from Totally Tomatoes give you RL or PL plants? I see it listed as both all over the place but I believe the true Wins All is RL.

I have no idea what a PL Wins All might be. It was bred as an improvement on Ponderosa and thus has the same foliage as Ponderosa, which is RL.

It really bothers me more than a bit when the wrong variety is being offered. And I see this happening more and more these days.

Shelley, when you say you see it listed are you talking abiout seed company catalogs or websites or are you talking about someones individual personal list?

[shelleybean]

Carolyn, I'm talking about commercial sources, both printed catalogs and web sites. I can think of at least one that lists it as PL and I know I've seen it described that way other places, too. I think there must be a good number of people out there who believe they have the true Wins All and it is PL variety. TGS, on the other hand, makes a point of saying theirs is the real deal with RL foliage.