does ANYBODY like Ponderosa?

[barkeater]

I just checked Totally Tomatoes website, and it is supposed to be regular leaf. I hadn't even thought about it when I planted it as a PL.

Looks like another project next year! I'll start a bunch and see if I get both PL and RL plants, grow them out and compare them. That PL Wins All was so good, I hope I don't get all RL plants, like I'm supposed to.

[JerryL]

Below are two pages from a 1930 Peter Henderson & Co. catalog.

The spelling, for the real deal, as you can see is "Winsall" – one word. As you can also see it was first introduced in 1924. I don’t know if it was called something different between 1924 and 1930 but in 1930 and I'll assume since, it was called "Winsall".

Also, there is no mention of it being potato leaf so I’ll assume it is a RL leaf plant.

I find the “Important Notice” quite interesting.

[TomatoDon]

Great post! Love the images!

I'm trying to read over the "Important Notice" and can't make it all out. Would you be nice enough to tell us all it says?

Thanks!

Don

[JerryL]

I knew I wasn’t the only one with bad eyesight.

“Winsall Tomato is very vigorous in growth and produces superabundant foliage. It is therefore necessary to prune away some of the superfluous foliage to admit light and air to the flowers and assist in pollenization. A dense mass of leaves and vines overshadowing the blossoms will cause them to fall, and fail to produce fruit.”

[carolyn137]

Jerry, I used to spell it Winsall myself until Craig suggested otherwise, and since he had the old seed catalogs and I didn't, I went along with the Wins All b'c I did know there was a naming contest and that it was named Winsall/Wins All b'c it did.

My Wins All was from Fax Stinnet, one of the original few members of SSE back in 1975, his seeds to me in the early 90's.

I've seen it spelled those two different ways and perhaps in later catalogs Henderson themselves spelled it as Wins All.

I dunno.

What I do know is that it's a great variety, not perhaps amongst my most fave large pinks but nevertheless a very good one indeed.

[TomatoDon]

Thanks Jerry!

Don

[greggf]

great catalog post!

[barkeater]

Although potato leaf, my Wins All fruit looked exactly like the Henderson pictures. Did they differentiate between RL and PL back in 1924? Or did they say to prune foliage instead of calling it potato leaf??

[carolyn137]

Although potato leaf, my Wins All fruit looked exactly like the Henderson pictures. Did they differentiate between RL and PL back in 1924? Or did they say to prune foliage instead of calling it potato leaf??

****

The cover picture on the 1900 Livingston catalog was Magnus and it's PL and I just can't remember what words they used to describe it. When Craig has time I'll ask him to take a look b/c I think he may have that catalog if not others even before that/

There were several varieties that looked like Wins All early on, so Bark, I don't think just looking at the fruits is a sure way of saying you have a PL variant of that variety.

In my experience there are varieties that have lots of PL foliage and some much less, and the same for RL foliage. So it's hard for me to speculate that asking to remove the foliage speaks to a PL variety.

Wins All was developed from Ponderosa and Ponderosa is RL as is Wins All.

[TomatoDon]

Carolyn, would you suggest to us that are interested in this to just plant the WinsAll? I was interested in the Ponderosa by all names, but no need to plant them all. It seems you like the WinsAll above all of them.

Thanks!

Don

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by don06

Carolyn, would you suggest to us that are interested in this to just plant the WinsAll? I was interested in the Ponderosa by all names, but no need to plant them all. It seems you like the WinsAll above all of them.

Thanks!

Don

No Don, I'm not suggesting that you grow Wins All and not Ponderosa.

I'm saying that I personally prefer Wins All over Ponderosa, but I think you have to grow and compare both in the same season before you can say which one you prefer.

[TomatoDon]

Thanks Carolyn. Wins All was on my list, along with Ponderosa, but I'll probably stick with Wins All now. Unless there is a lot of difference between the two, which there doesn't seem to be.

Thanks!

Don

[jwr6404]

Don
If you haven't ordered Seeds for the Ponderosa,Winsall and/or Crimson Cushion send me a PM. I have seeds for you.
Jim

[nctomatoman]

Lots for me to say in this thread.

First, the original question...I first tried Ponderosa at the beginnings of my interest in OP tomatoes - grew it in 1987 or 1988, and it did poorly - got wilt early on, gave me just a few misshapen fruit - so not a fair test. I should give it another try, but many of the old pink regular leaf varieties seem very prone to Fusarium, and I have trouble getting them to do well in NC.

Second - when Henderson released it, it was - and still - is, indeed, more appropriately spelled one word - Winsall. I got a strain from a Mr. Chance in western NC, where he spelled it out Wins All on the pack. I've grown them both (Winsall from the USDA, Wins All from Mr. Chance), and they perform identically.

Winsall is regular leaf. There were very few potato leaf, large fruited varieties ever listed in seed catalogs - Maule's 1600 Dollar, Turner's Hybrid (not really a hybrid, not sure why they called it that), and Mikado are the only ones I've noticed. Livingston had a pink PL variety in the 1880s, called (not very creatively) Potato Leaf, but it was described as medium sized. My view is that they re-released it as Magnus in 1900 (a more catchy name perhaps) - maybe doing a bit of re-selection. Magnus is medium sized and quite round.

Aside from Ponderosa and Winsall, each seed company seemed to have a large fruited pink potato leaf - such as Monarch, New King, Brimmer, Colossal Crimson, Peak of Perfection, Ferris Wheel, Buckeye State - in growing many of them out, they are very, very similar in all respects.

Winsall, in seed catalogs, seems to be suffering from the same problem as German Johnson, in being two large fruited, regular leaf pinks that are appearing to be sold as potato leaf "versions". Since these varieties should not be potato leaf, something went wrong somewhere in the labeling during seed production!

[barkeater]

I am very disappointed that what I bought as Winsall came out as a potato leaf, not the right leaf type. However, it did so well and tasted so good I don't care what it is! I just hope its the same tomato next year as I got last.