Size of fruit and seed saving

Marko · October 10, 2009

Yes, I know that seed from small fuit should be genetically identical to those from larger fruits of the same plant (unless somatic mutation occurs), but all the people I know including myself are saving seeds from the largest and best looking fruits.
I'm somehow reluctant to save seed from not so perfect fruits, but on the other hand I know that I could save much more seeds that way.
Am I wrong? Perhaps I am, but I guess that I'm not the only one in Tomatoville doing this

mjc · October 10, 2009

I generally go by over all plant vigor. Of course, I pick the nicest/best fruit from the nicest plants.

But if I'm bagging a blossom, I'll save it as long as it isn't too wildly out of type or outside the accepted size range for the variety.

frogsleap farm · October 10, 2009

As long as the parent plant phenotye is true to type, and the fruit on the plant generally are also true to type, there should be no advantage or disadvantage from collecting seed from fruit of varying size on the plant. The differences in fruit size on a plant are due to environment, not genetics, so are not heritable and not passed on to progeny.

**carolyn137** · October 10, 2009

Directions for seed saving in the past have encouraged saving seed from a single variety known to be true for the variety and using fruits of all sizes on a plant that does have them, most don't.

The rationale was to help preserve biological diversity, so it was said, which means not genetic diversity since as was said above, the seeds in all fruits of any size on a given true plant should have the same seeds.

That argument sounds rather Lamarkian to me as to preservation of biological diversity.

Only late in the season where I grow tomatoes do I see significantly smaller sized fruits, so most of the fruits I use for seed saving are the earlier larger ones, and indeed they may vary in size as well, due to environmental variables.

travis · October 10, 2009

Since all fruit on a single tomato vine should carry 100% identical gene structure, assuming no cross pollination or oh so rare mutations, I save seeds from whichever tomatoes provide the best opportunity at the time. Small ones, big ones, tall ones, short ones, early ones, late ones, perfect ones and raggedy ones.

mjc · October 10, 2009

There is a little bit of reasoning behind my 'biggest/nicest'...I'm usually using those for fresh eating...the rest are being processed/canned and I don't often process a single type at one time.

Also, since I don't save huge amounts of seed, I usually get enough for my needs out of what I used for sandwiches/salads, etc.

The ones I spend the time bagging, I'm going to use for seed, no matter what, but since I've 'babied' them some by bagging they usually fall into the 'nicest' group anyway.

RJ_Hythloday · October 10, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis

Small ones, big ones, tall ones, short ones, early ones, late ones, perfect ones and raggedy ones.

...crazy ones...

oooh I dig that girl

Wi-sunflower · October 11, 2009

I'm not sure if this holds for tomatoes, but I know that often a pepper that has been babied and had all the water and nutrition it needs will produce only a small amount of seeds. If a pepper plant is stressed, it will produce more seeds in a crummy looking fruit.

Same holds if you want to get peppers that are hotter. Stress the plant shortly before harvest and they will be hotter.

Carol

pete · October 17, 2009

Nothing matters and what if it did .

Travis still wine!! good tune

travis · October 18, 2009

What if certainly matters the least.

October 10, 2009	#1
Marko Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Slovenia, Europe zone 7b Posts: 300	Size of fruit and seed saving Yes, I know that seed from small fuit should be genetically identical to those from larger fruits of the same plant (unless somatic mutation occurs), but all the people I know including myself are saving seeds from the largest and best looking fruits. I'm somehow reluctant to save seed from not so perfect fruits, but on the other hand I know that I could save much more seeds that way. Am I wrong? Perhaps I am, but I guess that I'm not the only one in Tomatoville doing this

October 10, 2009	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Directions for seed saving in the past have encouraged saving seed from a single variety known to be true for the variety and using fruits of all sizes on a plant that does have them, most don't. The rationale was to help preserve biological diversity, so it was said, which means not genetic diversity since as was said above, the seeds in all fruits of any size on a given true plant should have the same seeds. That argument sounds rather Lamarkian to me as to preservation of biological diversity. Only late in the season where I grow tomatoes do I see significantly smaller sized fruits, so most of the fruits I use for seed saving are the earlier larger ones, and indeed they may vary in size as well, due to environmental variables. __________________ Carolyn

October 17, 2009	#9
pete Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: cincinnati Posts: 202	mater matters Nothing matters and what if it did . Travis still wine!! good tune

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October 10, 2009	#2
mjc Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: WV Posts: 603	I generally go by over all plant vigor. Of course, I pick the nicest/best fruit from the nicest plants. But if I'm bagging a blossom, I'll save it as long as it isn't too wildly out of type or outside the accepted size range for the variety.

October 10, 2009	#3
frogsleap farm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 568	As long as the parent plant phenotye is true to type, and the fruit on the plant generally are also true to type, there should be no advantage or disadvantage from collecting seed from fruit of varying size on the plant. The differences in fruit size on a plant are due to environment, not genetics, so are not heritable and not passed on to progeny.

October 10, 2009	#5
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Since all fruit on a single tomato vine should carry 100% identical gene structure, assuming no cross pollination or oh so rare mutations, I save seeds from whichever tomatoes provide the best opportunity at the time. Small ones, big ones, tall ones, short ones, early ones, late ones, perfect ones and raggedy ones.

October 11, 2009	#8
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	I'm not sure if this holds for tomatoes, but I know that often a pepper that has been babied and had all the water and nutrition it needs will produce only a small amount of seeds. If a pepper plant is stressed, it will produce more seeds in a crummy looking fruit. Same holds if you want to get peppers that are hotter. Stress the plant shortly before harvest and they will be hotter. Carol

October 18, 2009	#10
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	What if certainly matters the least.