saving seed from less-than-productive plant

[heirloomdaddy]

As we all know, conditions play a huge role in production. That being said, is it a bad idea to save seed from a plant that gives substantially less than expected? Is this not important?

I know this may seem silly, as the idea is to pass on desirable qualities and not save mediocre seed. I'm assuming though that I can just blame conditions for a non-productive cherokee purple...?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by heirloomdaddy

As we all know, conditions play a huge role in production. That being said, is it a bad idea to save seed from a plant that gives substantially less than expected? Is this not important?

I know this may seem silly, as the idea is to pass on desirable qualities and not save mediocre seed. I'm assuming though that I can just blame conditions for a non-productive cherokee purple...?

I think there are many reasons why your Cherokee Purple plant may have not produced as many fruits as you had hoped for, probably based on the experiences of others with the same variety.

But the seed you save from those few fruits is not going to change anything at all, and next year using that saved seed you may have wonderful production.

All to say that if the seed you received was good seed then the seeds you save will be fine and the problem with low production was probably envionmental.

Last summer I got NO fruits off half the plants that I grew, b'c of weather.

[heirloomdaddy]

Thanks Carolyn. I appreciate the wisdom. That's what I thought but it seemed open to interpretation.

[jackdaniel]

That's an interesting idea...

Does seed from the "runts" differ from that of the "producers?"

Is there any genetic difference between the seed from a stunted plant and that of a top performer?

Are all the seeds the same?

Any geneticists out there care to answer?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jackdaniel

That's an interesting idea...

Does seed from the "runts" differ from that of the "producers?"

Is there any genetic difference between the seed from a stunted plant and that of a top performer?

Are all the seeds the same?

Any geneticists out there care to answer?

All fruits on a plant have the same genes.

It makes no difference if it's a diseased plant, a stunted plant or whatever. And if by a top performer you mean a higher yield, that usually relates to weather and cultural conditions if speaking about different performance of a single variety in one season.

There can be genetic diversity within a specific variety and sometimes you can see that if you grow out lots of plants of that variety, but they are subtle differences having to do with internode differences and the such.

I feel very strongly that one should never save seeds from one fruit, better lots of fruits from one plant, better still several fruits from two plants, etc. This refers to a situation where one is not bagging blossoms and not isolating varieties geographically, which is difficult to do.

But that has to do with the possibility of cross pollinated seed and I just wrote a long post about that a few days back. Saving seeds from many fruits essentially dilutes out any X pollinated seeds.

[jackdaniel]

Interesting, and makes sense. Where would one find out more about "but they are subtle differences having to do with internode differences and the such"?

Thanks!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jackdaniel

Interesting, and makes sense. Where would one find out more about "but they are subtle differences having to do with internode differences and the such"?

Thanks!

http://www.savingourseed.org/pdf/Tom...onVer_2pt6.pdf

First, I'm talking about heirloom varieties, not hybrids for sure and not commercial OP's.

Back in the mid-80's when I first started growing heirlooms, although I was raised on a farm where we had acres of tomatoes so I was up close and personal with tomatoes from the time I was a toddler, there was considerable discussion about preserving the genetic divsersity within a given variety. At that time heirloom varieties were becoming better known and there were seed sources for them, and folks were gradually starting to save their own seed. And that accelerated when SSE, formed in 1975, became more widely known.

Back then, it was said to never grow less that 8 plants of a single variety and save seeds only from the inner four, but that information didn't translate well as time progressed.

But as to specific subtle differences within a variety I remember the internode distance variation best, but there were others such as slightly different leaf shapes, possibly different numbers of petals, but none of these slight differences changed the variety as known in terms of leaf form, plant habit, fruit color and shape.

Above I linked to an article written by Dr. Jeff McCormack, who used to own SESE and even now at that site is an article he wrote about NCP ( natural cross pollination), which I think is one of the best around.

From the above link I suggest you take a look at page 6 under I think the topic that says SELECTION, and see what he has to say about diversity within a given heirloom variety.

[jackdaniel]

Quite informative. Makes me want to get a few more books!

Thanks you.