Free aged horse manure - central NJ

[TomNJ]

I found a small farm called Little Hidden Farm in Holmdel NJ that is offering free aged horse manure for the taking. The pile is about 10' high by perhaps 20' long. I just picked up two trunk loads and will turn it into my compost heap today.

The owner, Madeline, would love to get rid of it all, so if you live near-by and need manure, just give her a call at 732 946 4613.

TomNJ

[stormymater]

Oh Tom - Ask the owner where they get their hay from! I am still cleaning up from getting about 10 cubic yards of aged horse manure from a well-known local horse farm (used by organic farmers around here for YEARS). Turns out the farm bought hay treated with a very persistent herbicide which contaminated the biscuits.... and my raised beds...& 50+ of my buckets...& my compost pile... and 2 beds in the ground... DowAgroSciences has been helpful in removing the contaminated material but in the future I am always going to ask about what the stock are eating & where it came from &&&& do my own assays using peas before busily digging anything new into my container farm. It has been terrible.
So do yourself a favor & ask about sources & herbicides before getting the manure & then test it before doing what I did. (aminopyralid, picloram, triclopyr - all pyridine carboxylic acids that kill members of nightshade family at 3 parts per billion & used on grasslands & hay fields to control noxious weeds - supposed to put manure from critters eating this only back on grasslands - up to 4 years persistence!)

[TomNJ]

Hi Stormy,

I had read about these persistent herbicides that can be toxic to tomatoes, but thought this was rather rare. I also read of a bean germination test to be sure. Based on your experience I would like to try this bean test - do you have any details for this test? I was planning on mixing 20% manure in potting soil and germinating some bean seeds. As I understand it, if the beans germinate and the leaves look normal, the manure is okay. Is this correct?

Thanks!

TomNJ

[stormymater]

You got it - peas work well too -
Here's a couple of links - it is in the right sidebar of the first -

http://www.manurematters.co.uk/gardening.htm
http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/picloram.html

Now that I have only 3 more areas to get cleaned up I am re-planting very leggy plants I did not donate out. Interestingly, this manure ZAPPED my mint bed - you can see a horse biscuit surrounded by a zone of no growth, then weird stunted growth then normal though thin growth. Spearmint, peppermint, chocolate mint & pineapple mint all knocked out. The mint bed was so thick last year I did not notice a 30 inch copperhead in there as I rooted around - he came out only after I tossed the hose into the bed to give it a good drenching! That kill zone suggests suggests a concentration at or over 300ppb (nightshade family gets knocked off at 3ppb).
Lost almost 80 tomato plants & 40 pepper plants - some contaminated & others, sadly, as collateral damage in the mad rush by 6 able bodied country guys to clear the site. Am so bummed about the 47 tomato plants & 24 peppers I had set aside ( there are more that were not inadvertently tossed) that got tossed thought they were fine in their cups - no pastes, no canners, no Stupice, no Gogosha, no Zogola for me (I sold or donated once I picked out my own keepers). On the bright side I have a couple of leggy but very healthy Tom's Yellow Wonders that do great along the driveway in dappled light down here! I'll have everything planted by Sunday barring hail or a tropical storm.

My old compost bed & dirt pile is gone (removed with Bobcat still needs hand work done for final cleanup) & the area is not to be used for at least 4 years. My new compost bed is looking mighty sharp though - may have to figure out how to post pics. Am losing a 5yo Brown Turkey fig in a 45 gallon pot - transplanted in April using horse manure amended soil. Goner as I need all the manure gone & I eat & can those figs (care for a pint of fig preserves? - just a hint of hormonally mediated herbicide...).

Yes, I think I'll be doing that test before adding any manure or even straw amendments in the future. Note the need to be planning way ahead - may try to get samples before receiving any on the property (voice of experience has spoken LOL - whimper).

I suspect this is more widespread that we realize - our ag extension agent in an adjoining county was telling farmers who used horse manure from the same source that it was herbicide from the hay the horses ingested but not directing the affected farmers to Dow AgroSciences for assistance. I suspect folks just sigh & figure that's the way it rolls rather than seeking assistance with removal & remediation.

[geeboss]

Stormy I was heartbroken to hear of your loss. Doing everything right and coming up snake eyes! Ouch

Hope that the new beds provide a decent harvest this year for you.


George

[TomNJ]

Well I read the pea/bean test method in the above links and it requires observing the plants for 4 weeks. I can't wait that long as my compost needs turning and the manure is piled next to it. So what I did is plant a row of beans in a rarely used area of the garden and incorporated leaf mold in half the row and the manure in the other half. I also planted two tomato seedlings with a couple of shovels of manure in each of the holes. I should know pretty quickly if the manure has a problem.

In the mean time I'm going to go ahead and turn the manure into the compost heap. I know I am taking a little risk, but if the manure shows a problem in my tests I'll just use the compost in my garlic beds this November. I feel pretty sure the manure is clean as the horse lady said many people have been taking from her pile and no one has reported any problems.

TomNJ

[dice]

Maybe one could use buckwheat for a canary in the coal
mine, too. It was listed as one of the broadleaf weeds that
aminopyralid would control back in the initial press
releases, etc, when aminopyralid herbicides came on the
market. (Buckwheat grows really fast, so it should show
results from contaminated manure or straw quickly.)

edit: Buckwheat seed is usually available from vendors
that market cover crop seeds, as that is one of its uses.

[Timmah!]

If one has extra, wouldn't it be best to use an actual tomato plant for a safety test?

[stormymater]

Sure you could but beans & peas grow so much faster & one would have to start the tomatoes a month ahead of others... sooo...

Just watch for leaf curl & thickened pale growth on new growing tips (& suckers) about 7 to 10 days after setting out plants. Best of luck to you! I NEVER have experienced such a mess & would NEVER wish it on a fellow tomatophile.

[Timmah!]

Well, thing is: I've got access to this 'mulch' that smells of manure &/or compost. It looks & smells like a rich organic mix. Having like 40 extra better boy tomato plants, I'ma volunteer a couple for testing on this 'mulch' before using it. Guy says that part of the mix is from horse manure & that he's used it to grow vegetables. He doesn't know for sure the nature of the feed used for the horses.

[stormymater]

Mine started with the pretzelly twists & pale thickened stunted new growth (apical meristem & suckers!) 7 to 10 days after being set into the contaminated manure/soil mix. I do not think one would have to wait the full 4 weeks based on my observations. But I know I have at least 300ppb as that is what it takes to knock off mint - including chocolate mint (!) in my soon to be bye-bye mint bed (can you say skip the chocolate mint when starting over?).
Some weed seed that has sprouted in the contaminated mix (that is NOT grass) also demonstrates the curling of the leaves with the first true leaves like the peas (imagine the veins of the leaves being drawstrings that are pulled up). Put in a few give it 7 to 10 days - if new growth looks healthy - go for the rest is my rec.

[Timmah!]

That sounds about right; the tomato plants I potted up, after about 7 days, were already growing roots out the drain holes & into the spot on the lawn on which I have them sitting.

[stormymater]

oh - legume test NOT GOOD ENOUGH for tomato growers! Legumes get the symptoms at 200ppb but tomatoes are damaged at only 3ppb! Timmah, you were right on the money.

Aminopyralid is simply too persistent to be allowed into the food forage chain when judicious application of shorter acting products works. I am still picking up chunks of manure in areas "hand grubbed" three times by the now very frustrated Dow Agrosciences field agent. Half life? For a chemical that is recommended by state Ag Extension offices in many states, very little is actually known. Minimum 2 years on surface but it is very mobile in the soil/water column & persists a LONG time unless spread on open pasture where it is exposed to light, air & aerobic bacteria. 3 to 8 inches in the soil? Who knows? Dow Agrosciences doesn't... or if they do, they are not saying.
Interestingly, the Dow Agrosciences field rep confirmed the presence of aminopyralid in my compost pile of manure & in my manure/soil filled raised beds & buckets & in-ground beds. He would/could not give me the concentrations though. Instead he referred me to their "field scientist" who has not returned my calls. This has me concerned because the "ring of death" around the horse biscuits was very apparent in the mint bed (yes, there is photo documentation).

One of the tomatoes potted up in replacement media is showing stunted growth & cupping of its leaves - c/w mild aminopyrallid toxicity. I am keeping it (though could really use the space for a healthy plant) to watch. Don't know if the bucket wasn't knocked out enough by the workers brought in by Dow Agrosciences to clean up the disaster or if it came from the raised bed they insisted on using for mixing media. It just lets me know aminopyralid will be in my life in unexpected places a... a good long while. Thanks to the makers of fine herbicides like Agent Orange.

[TomNJ]

My beans are up and all look good, but in addition, I planted two tomato seedlings with a good portion of the manure. Both tomato plants have doubled in size and look perfect, so I think I'm safe. I'll give it another couples of days, and then turn the manure into the compost heap.

Thanks all!

TomNJ

[Timmah!]

Some of those herbicides are evil stuff. Still children in Vietnam being born with disfigurements due to the remaining presence of Agent Orange some 40+ years after being applied. It's not water soluble, but very soluble in fat. I really feel for you man; all that time and effort immediately ruined; and for who knows how long into the future. =(