Newbie Crosstalk Question

[organichris]

I have never crossed any tomatoes, but am considering giving it a try this year, but here is my question: Assume you are wanting to cross your two most productive varieties, with the primary goal being a very productive hybrid, but secondarily you want good flavor. Do you pick the favorite tasting one to be the father, the mother, or does it matter? I don't know if there is even a good answer for this, but I'm interested in getting your input.

[travis]

Originally Posted by organichris

Do you pick the favorite tasting one to be the father, the mother, or does it matter?

It makes no difference which parent you pick as the seed mother or the pollen donor when crossing for flavor.

Since you've not done it before, you want to pick the parent with the larger blossoms and sturdiest pistles as the seed mother so it's easy for you to emasculate the flower without damaging the female parts. Also, you may want to consider the more seedy variety for the seed mother for obvious reasons.

[organichris]

Thanks, Travis. Let me ask a second question. If both plants were used as father and mother - in other words if one batch of seeds was made with one as the father and then another with said plant as mother and the other as father, is it reasonable to assume that you would end up with two different F1's? Or would they be virtually the same, assuming both parents were stabilized varieties?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by organichris

Thanks, Travis. Let me ask a second question. If both plants were used as father and mother - in other words if one batch of seeds was made with one as the father and then another with said plant as mother and the other as father, is it reasonable to assume that you would end up with two different F1's? Or would they be virtually the same, assuming both parents were stabilized varieties?

I know Travis will answer but I thought I'd make a comment about reciprocal crosses with the same parents.

Quite a few years ago I was sent reciprocal crosses for Brandywine X various earlies such as Glacier, Stupice, etc. I was sent F1 seeds for all of them.

And I grew out all 10, 5 with X as the mom and 5 with Y as the mom, and I saw no difference with the plants themselves or with the fruits.

However I have read that in certain cases that it can make a difference as to which parent is the mom and perhaps Travis can remember who said that and what was said b'c last I knew he knows that person very well; You know Travis, the PH, LB, D and BC person.

[travis]

Yes, Carolyn answered as I would have, which is not surprising since I've learned most of it from her and the fellow she's alluding to. Let me ask him about those few cases where the reciprocal is favored for specific reasons and get back with you. But I don't think it will change anything with regard to the flavor issue in your first post. That means I think you'll see no difference whether you make the cross A x B or B x A. And that goes for almost every characteristic usually seen in the F1.

[organichris]

You guys are awesome! Thanks! What would the world of tomato growing be without Tomatoville?!

[maf]

One thing that is different, depending on which way you do the cross, is that chloroplast DNA is only passed on from the seed parent, not from the male. Nuclear DNA on the other hand comes from both parents.

My (limited) understanding is that this almost never has a noticeable effect on inherited traits when breeding tomatoes, because these traits are usually inherited via nuclear DNA, but it is possible. For example, some of the scientists creating Genetically Modified plants are inserting the transgenes into the chloroplast DNA so that these genes will not be spread to nearby plants via pollen.

[sprtsguy76]

I've heard that if you want a very productive f1 it helps if one of the parents is a single truss fruit type. I think it was Keith M who wrote that last year over at GW.

Damon

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by maf

One thing that is different, depending on which way you do the cross, is that chloroplast DNA is only passed on from the seed parent, not from the male. Nuclear DNA on the other hand comes from both parents.

My (limited) understanding is that this almost never has a noticeable effect on inherited traits when breeding tomatoes, because these traits are usually inherited via nuclear DNA, but it is possible. For example, some of the scientists creating Genetically Modified plants are inserting the transgenes into the chloroplast DNA so that these genes will not be spread to nearby plants via pollen.

Which is why I specified above that it was the mom parent that mattered. But I simply cannot remember what tomato genes might be on the chloroplast DNA so that's why I asked Travis to find out if he could, although I didn't use the word chloroplast b/c I was pretty sure he knew what I meant when I specifed the mom parent.

So we shall see.

[Lee]

Go take a look at the Dwarf project crosses.

You'll see a lot of really good tasting varieties that were crossed with a few different dwarf varieties. 7 of the first 8 hybrids were not that flavorful. In fact,
a couple of them were near spitters. However that got better in the F2s and beyond. And, there have been some decent tasting hybrids to come out of the
crosses. Rosy F1 which was a cross between Rosella Purple and Orange Heirloom was only second to Cuostralee in flavor the year I grew it.

So, what I'm trying to say is that two great tomatoes crossed may not make a
great hybrid. But it should be fun experimenting! My only suggestion, choose
a potato leaf as the mother, and a regular leaf as the father if possible.
That way you can verify your cross took within a couple of weeks of getting the
seed.

Good luck!

Lee

[organichris]

Originally Posted by Lee

So, what I'm trying to say is that two great tomatoes crossed may not make a
great hybrid. But it should be fun experimenting! My only suggestion, choose
a potato leaf as the mother, and a regular leaf as the father if possible.
That way you can verify your cross took within a couple of weeks of getting the
seed.

Good luck!

Lee

Yeah, this is just an experiment for me pretty much. Concerning your suggestion, I had thought about doing that if the Olive Hill is what I hope it will be.