I've dug a shallow grave, what am I doing? In over my head.. - Page 3

LBlala · June 2, 2012

Thanks! Good stuff! Habitat_gardener & janezee, I read about that, but read tomatoes have roots 2-5 ft deep & very wide so I worried about putting anything like wood down (guess newspaper deteriorates).

Been trying to clear some of the Bermuda grass that is my entire lawn (except for the clover). Fighting a loosing battle. Hoped clearing 1.5' for each plant & mulch would be enough for tom plants to get roots down, so they wouldn't be strangled when the BG storms back in..? (Had no clue this stuff is so bad & w/ the concrete dirt, the proper tools might be a sledgehammer/wedge/blowtorch). May be wasting my time if it will just strangle em though. Pic below is at a weird angle, shorter than it is, but that's what I've got done. Didn't get enough dirt to raise it up much, dunno.. All that brown looks clear, but only 1/2 foot is, rest is just covered in dirt.

-meadowck, I agree about the Milorganite, I was given this half a bucket of 'magic mix' from someone at the US botanic gardens who came up w/ it. No clue why she would use human sludge

when other things have the same effect. Have seen it do wonders for flowering plants, but don't feel good about putting it on food plants.. Have a bag of tomato-tone & seen a bunch of recipes on here, dunno which would be cheaper but those are better probably. Oh & I just cried a little picturing having an arbor covered in tomatoes like that 'tomato tree' photo in epcot

Well, when I'm a home owner instead of renter maybe!
--Containers, agreed, are necessary. My be the only choice now. Drip emitters I keep hearing about would be a necessity. Still have some giant pots, now to pay for the mix... I hear that 5:1:1 recipe's good.. Man good weather today.. off to back out there.

delltraveller · June 2, 2012

re: Milorganite, properly handled and prepared human waste is no more dangerous or improper to use on vegetables than other composted manures. In parts of the world where resources are scarce, providing the knowledge on how to prepare a safe soil amendment from human waste to apply to gardens can make a very significant difference in production.

In many places sludge from sewage plants is put on fields, so it's entering the food chain there, in a not so finely prepared form.

LBlala · June 6, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by delltraveller

re: is no more dangerous or improper to use on vegetables than other composted manures.

You know, I take it back.. I didn't know anything about milorganite until recently when I was given this 'magic mix' fert. I suppose because when thinking of cows/horses/etc I think of grass, but forget that the grass & anything else they ear is probably covered in pesticides & whatnot. At least some of these must be passed on to the manure.. & when I think of human 'manure' it seems gross (for unrelated reasons, like what people eat/McDonalds, etc

). I'm sure in processing the product is just as safe as anything else..

--Is there a way to calculate the NPK of a homemade fertilizer (like the one I discribed earlier)? I'd like to know if the P level is ok to use w/ soluble mycorrhiza. I just learned about it, got some, & some Actinovate as well. I see a dip of the root-ball into the mixed diluted powders is best when transplanting, but I read a P higher than 4 is bad, but don't know w/ my mix..

I'm just learning about NPK, so please excuse... I ask because I have already mixed a bunch of the fert into one bed I mixed up, & wonder if I should not use the mycorrhiza (or wait or..?) In the future containers/beds should I use tomato-tone instead? I have mostly used TT but had run out so mixed homemade fert instead (more TT coming, I bought the 20 lbs from Ozbo... uh..)

dice · June 7, 2012

Parts per million in the soil is the key, so it depends on how
available the phosphorus is, what it is bound to in the P source.
If it comes from superphosphate, it is all available immediately.
If it comes from rock phosphate, only 3% of what is in
the rock phosphate is available immediately, and how fast
the rest of it is broken down by soil microbes and weathering
depends on whether it is soft or hard rock phosphate. I have
heard that one dose of soft rock phosphate is good for 5 years,
that is how long it takes for all of the P in it to have been made
available in the soil. Bone meal is likewise slow release, although
over a season it will release more P than many other organic
sources, and phosphate from manures and other organic
compounds takes from a couple of weeks to six weeks (seed meals)
to become available in the soil.

So the 3% is only a "ballpark estimate". There are many variables
involved.

Here is a calculator that will tell you how much fertilizer of what P
percentage will produce what PPM in the soil if you are using liquid
synthetic fertilizer, where all of the P is immediately available. You
want to keep P ppm under 100 to avoid inhibiting mycorrhizae. This
calculator does not really work for organic fertilizers, because of
the variable release rates of the P mentioned above:
http://www.firstrays.com/fertcalc.htm

With manures, aminopyralid contamination is one thing to watch
out for. Aminopyralid is a broad leaf herbicide that does not kill grass,
and some hay farmers use it to reduce weed competition in hay fieds.
It passes right through horses, cows, and other stock without being
digested, and it takes years to break down in the soil. It will warp/kill
tomato plants at very low concentrations, and it interferes with the
growth of most vegetables, which have the same susceptibility to it
as the broadleaf weeds in the hay fields. People have had to replace
their soil down to a few feet deep after tilling in a load of manure
contaminated with aminopyralid. (There are some previous threads on
here about it. The search at the top of any page can find them.)

If you have a manure available and want to use it, one should test some
of it in a container first with some fast growing test plant like peas, beans,
buckwheat, etc. Here are some pictures of plants showing aminopyralid
contamination: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/

Lead is a contaminant found in some gardens that is more of a threat
to us than to the plants:
http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/lead.html

June 7, 2012	#34
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Parts per million in the soil is the key, so it depends on how available the phosphorus is, what it is bound to in the P source. If it comes from superphosphate, it is all available immediately. If it comes from rock phosphate, only 3% of what is in the rock phosphate is available immediately, and how fast the rest of it is broken down by soil microbes and weathering depends on whether it is soft or hard rock phosphate. I have heard that one dose of soft rock phosphate is good for 5 years, that is how long it takes for all of the P in it to have been made available in the soil. Bone meal is likewise slow release, although over a season it will release more P than many other organic sources, and phosphate from manures and other organic compounds takes from a couple of weeks to six weeks (seed meals) to become available in the soil. So the 3% is only a "ballpark estimate". There are many variables involved. Here is a calculator that will tell you how much fertilizer of what P percentage will produce what PPM in the soil if you are using liquid synthetic fertilizer, where all of the P is immediately available. You want to keep P ppm under 100 to avoid inhibiting mycorrhizae. This calculator does not really work for organic fertilizers, because of the variable release rates of the P mentioned above: http://www.firstrays.com/fertcalc.htm With manures, aminopyralid contamination is one thing to watch out for. Aminopyralid is a broad leaf herbicide that does not kill grass, and some hay farmers use it to reduce weed competition in hay fieds. It passes right through horses, cows, and other stock without being digested, and it takes years to break down in the soil. It will warp/kill tomato plants at very low concentrations, and it interferes with the growth of most vegetables, which have the same susceptibility to it as the broadleaf weeds in the hay fields. People have had to replace their soil down to a few feet deep after tilling in a load of manure contaminated with aminopyralid. (There are some previous threads on here about it. The search at the top of any page can find them.) If you have a manure available and want to use it, one should test some of it in a container first with some fast growing test plant like peas, beans, buckwheat, etc. Here are some pictures of plants showing aminopyralid contamination: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/ Lead is a contaminant found in some gardens that is more of a threat to us than to the plants: http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/lead.html __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; June 7, 2012 at 02:00 PM. Reason: typo

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June 2, 2012	#32
delltraveller Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Posts: 481	re: Milorganite, properly handled and prepared human waste is no more dangerous or improper to use on vegetables than other composted manures. In parts of the world where resources are scarce, providing the knowledge on how to prepare a safe soil amendment from human waste to apply to gardens can make a very significant difference in production. In many places sludge from sewage plants is put on fields, so it's entering the food chain there, in a not so finely prepared form.