Your thoughts on Wintersowing/Spring Sowing Tomatoes

Delerium · February 25, 2013

This year i wanted to try some Winter sowing which did pretty good with lots of vegetables that i did not want to grow indoors. I wanted to ask if anyone here on Tomato Ville has been successful with wintersowing/spring sowing tomatoes and getting good production even if its later with production. I live in Zone 9, and my concern is about high temperatures hitting us early and plants becoming unproductive. I would love to see any winter sown pictures any of you might have any and how well did they produced for you. Per Trudi - wintersown tomato plants are much hardier than the ones we pamper indoors. I enjoy the concept of winter sowing but wanted to ask those who have tried this method.

Thanks

**carolyn137** · February 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delerium

This year i wanted to try some Winter sowing which did pretty good with lots of vegetables that i did not want to grow indoors. I wanted to ask if anyone here on Tomato Ville has been successful with wintersowing/spring sowing tomatoes and getting good production even if its later with production. I live in Zone 9, and my concern is about high temperatures hitting us early and plants becoming unproductive. I would love to see any winter sown pictures any of you might have any and how well did they produced for you. Per Trudi - wintersown tomato plants are much hardier than the ones we pamper indoors. I enjoy the concept of winter sowing but wanted to ask those who have tried this method.

Thanks

I don't do any wintersowing of tomatoes here where I live but have many friends in SCal, zone 9, where you are.

I can't see the sense of wintersowing there at all, just sow your seeds around Xmas or so up through early jan and set them out by early march or
so.

Yes Trudi has said that tomato seeds wintersown are hardier, but there are some issues with that, and besides, your soil in S Cal doesn't freeze, so I can't see why wintersowing of tomatoes would be considered.

Here's a link to a thread below currently in GEneral Discussion about Tomatomania and you can see when plants are being sold in S Cal at many places.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=26527

I was invited to Hortus Nursery in Pasadena when it was still operating and had a close look at when the plants are being sold.

So two options as I see it.

One, sow seeds of any varieties you want to early inside, as many of my S Cal friends do, to get plants out so fruits set and start ripening up before the high heat sets in

OR

Buy plants at the many places they are being sold and the lists at Tomatomania are not complete, b'c I know there's usually a good sale at the Fullerton Arboretum as well.

OR

Do a combo of both so you can compare.

Hope that helps

Carolyn

Delerium · February 25, 2013

Carolyn thank you for replying. I actually have plants grown indoors that are ready to go soon. The reason i was asking about winter sowing is mainly to see if i can get a later crop when my earlier plants start to slow down and have a 2nd batch to grow later in the season closer to Fall time. I figure with the temps starting to warm up here in Zone 9 (Day temps in the mid 60's and nights still in the 30's) i figure they should be able to germinate outdoors without any help from me and won't need any hardening off. I am correct to assume that your saying maybe i might be to late to start new plants from seed now for zone 9? I am just curious if i started now - if the plants will still produce well and if it might just be a waste of time and plants would be unproductive if we start hitting triple digits temps like we did last year very early.

Thank you again Carolyn for answering. Most of my plants that i grow usually start to slow down around August/Sept. But we usually have warmer temps till mid Oct/early Nov. My question is mostly in the search to extend my season a bit more

and get some more production from younger plants.

Sun City Linda · February 26, 2013

Volunteers are, afterall Wintersown. They do seem to be very sturdy plants. Have not let one keep growing in so many years I cant remember if it was any different.

**carolyn137** · February 26, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delerium

Carolyn thank you for replying. I actually have plants grown indoors that are ready to go soon. The reason i was asking about winter sowing is mainly to see if i can get a later crop when my earlier plants start to slow down and have a 2nd batch to grow later in the season closer to Fall time. I figure with the temps starting to warm up here in Zone 9 (Day temps in the mid 60's and nights still in the 30's) i figure they should be able to germinate outdoors without any help from me and won't need any hardening off. I am correct to assume that your saying maybe i might be to late to start new plants from seed now for zone 9? I am just curious if i started now - if the plants will still produce well and if it might just be a waste of time and plants would be unproductive if we start hitting triple digits temps like we did last year very early.

Thank you again Carolyn for answering. Most of my plants that i grow usually start to slow down around August/Sept. But we usually have warmer temps till mid Oct/early Nov. My question is mostly in the search to extend my season a bit more

and get some more production from younger plants.

Yes, I'm saying that it's too latenow to start from seed.

What many do is to start seeds outdoors in mid to late August and plant out when they are the right size and in that way get a fall crop and often up to Dec.

Some have had good success doing that and others have not.

But if you look at the plants sold at nurseries, etc in late summer, in your area you'll also find determinate varieties as well. Ones put out in the Spring should be mid and late season varieties and ones put out for Fall should be mid and early season varieties, as Linda Sapp at TGS in Fort Myers, FL has long said, and most,. but not all of the latter are determinates.

Carolyn, and now to bed,perchance to dream of fresh tomatoes homegrown.

Delerium · February 26, 2013

Ahh that makes a lot of sense.. Grow some Determinates for the 2nd planting around July - August. I still want to try some wintersown (Spring Sow) tomatoes just to see how well they do. I think i remember Trudi mentioning something about growing early varieties for those winter sowing tomatoes for colder zones.

habitat_gardener · February 26, 2013

I've grown my tomatoes from seed in cold frames in northern Calif. for several years. It's not really "wintersowing" but it's not indoors with heating pads and lights, either. It's been getting down into the 30s this winter; usually it doesn't get much below 40 for very long. They germinate at a lower % and, once germinated, grow more slowly in cold frames. I'm not planning to start seeds for another week or so.

My cold frames have been
(1) wire cylinders wrapped in bubblewrap and surrounded by gallons of water to block the wind. I've had to get over to the garden on sunny days to vent it and run over during rainstorms to seal it up.
(2) translucent plastic boxes, with translucent lids or else sheets of plexiglas as covers. These have been less successful than the bubblewrapped cages. Last year I fried a bunch of seedlings that I didn't uncover in time one morning. This year I got some rigid insulation and made enclosures to fit my translucent bins. I will see if that makes them at least as good as the bubblewrapped cages.

If you want to grow some of the same varieties in the fall, and your spring plants are healthy, you can take cuttings. Cuttings will grow faster than seeds.

Delerium · February 26, 2013

habitat_gardener - Oh I totally forgot about using cuttings. I remember watching a good video from mhpgardener using 16oz soda bottles to root suckers right on the plant before cutting them. I was just really interested in trying some wintersowing just for the heck of it.

**carolyn137** · February 26, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delerium

Ahh that makes a lot of sense.. Grow some Determinates for the 2nd planting around July - August. I still want to try some wintersown (Spring Sow) tomatoes just to see how well they do. I think i remember Trudi mentioning something about growing early varieties for those winter sowing tomatoes for colder zones.

OK, you posted the same question elsewhere and I started from the same point of what you said above, which is putting out plants around July/August, but I'm sure you meant to say sowing seed for a Fall crop in lateJuly/early August,not putting out plants.

And in a post above I also said that Linda Sapp who owns TGS in Fort Myers, Fl, also a zine 9 area,has long said to put out long and midseason varieties in the Spring and early and mid seasonplants for a Fall crop, which works for some in some years and not for others in some years.

You keep saying that wintersown plants are hardier, or quoting Trudi on that, but what does that really mean to you in an arid S Cal zone 9?

Each year after my tomato field was prepared for me and I'd set out hundreds of plants and varieties, there were always volunteers that came up, basically wintersown if you will, and I didn't see them as being any different from my inside grown ones,

It really does depend on how you grow them inside and how long you take to harden them off before setting out as I see it.

Carolyn

Doug9345 · February 26, 2013

I've never found tomatoes to be that delicate to start with. In years past I've had volunteers that have grown. I think the only reason they look studier is that seedlings grown in cooler temperatures have shorter, heavier stems and a tomato grown outside receives much more light. I've had seedling get so leggy that they could hardly remain erect. I transplanted them deep and got them into more light and they were fine.

Last year I left a cup of Rutgers in the back window of a car until almost noon in the sun. It dried them out bad enough that the lost all of their little leaves and I thought I had killed them. I watered them and babied them by making sure they stayed in the shade for the next week. Seventeen of twenty made it and by the time they where ready to put in the garden you couldn't tell them from any of the others.

I've transplanted them when they barely had seed leaves open. I've transplanted them when they were 18" plants in a tiny little 6 pack tray. I've started them in peat, and sand and dirt I've scooped up in the yard. They've all grown. Some have grown quicker than others but they have all grown. They only thing I've have found to be critical is enough light.

Delerium · February 26, 2013

Sorry Carolyn137 for the cross post on Gardenweb. Yes i was quoting Trudi about Wintersown plants being hardier and just wanted to hear what others had to say about it and to know if they were successful with wintersowing.

Thank you for replying.

**carolyn137** · February 26, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delerium

Sorry Carolyn137 for the cross post on Gardenweb. Yes i was quoting Trudi about Wintersown plants being hardier and just wanted to hear what others had to say about it and to know if they were successful with wintersowing.

Thank you for replying.

No problem, you can post wherever and whenever you want to, that's a given.

Trudi has her own opinion and as you've seen, other folks have their own opinions and experiences as well.

Carolyn

Ms. Jitomate · February 26, 2013

Delerium, I planted tomatoes in October. I purchased them at a nursery and transplanted into 4 pots and 2 raised beds. I think they would look better any other winter but this winter, even though I protected them, they got some frost damage where the leaf touched the sheet. I trimmed off a lot of leaves to avoid diseases. Today my tomatoes are ripening but they remain smaller than my summer tomatoes. The first tomatoes ripened about a month ago and they were tasteless. But now that it is warmer, my tomatoes are ripening and I pulled out a couple and they were delicious. I have about 50 tomatoes ripening in different sizes and shapes.

I had two cuttings of a yellow tomato I had in the summer in two pots but they died. Could have been my lack of experience in saving a cutting. I have in the past saved one summer tomato, Champion, into the winter in a raised bed but it never looked good until February. It did give me some December tomatoes. I won't be doing that again because it could be a reason why I have nematodes in that bed.

If I had to do this again, I would avoid pots because they required more attention. My original thought was that in pots, the soil would warm up better, and I could protect them easier. But I now know they need more fertilizer than in my raised bed. The rains drain the nutrients fast. I would plant again in my raised bed for winter but my tomato rotation gets limited in my backyard so I would limit it to two plants only.

You learn a lot from experimenting, so next winter, give it a try.

February 25, 2013	#1
Delerium Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: California Posts: 942	Your thoughts on Wintersowing/Spring Sowing Tomatoes This year i wanted to try some Winter sowing which did pretty good with lots of vegetables that i did not want to grow indoors. I wanted to ask if anyone here on Tomato Ville has been successful with wintersowing/spring sowing tomatoes and getting good production even if its later with production. I live in Zone 9, and my concern is about high temperatures hitting us early and plants becoming unproductive. I would love to see any winter sown pictures any of you might have any and how well did they produced for you. Per Trudi - wintersown tomato plants are much hardier than the ones we pamper indoors. I enjoy the concept of winter sowing but wanted to ask those who have tried this method. Thanks

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February 26, 2013	#4
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	Volunteers are, afterall Wintersown. They do seem to be very sturdy plants. Have not let one keep growing in so many years I cant remember if it was any different.

February 26, 2013	#7
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	I've grown my tomatoes from seed in cold frames in northern Calif. for several years. It's not really "wintersowing" but it's not indoors with heating pads and lights, either. It's been getting down into the 30s this winter; usually it doesn't get much below 40 for very long. They germinate at a lower % and, once germinated, grow more slowly in cold frames. I'm not planning to start seeds for another week or so. My cold frames have been (1) wire cylinders wrapped in bubblewrap and surrounded by gallons of water to block the wind. I've had to get over to the garden on sunny days to vent it and run over during rainstorms to seal it up. (2) translucent plastic boxes, with translucent lids or else sheets of plexiglas as covers. These have been less successful than the bubblewrapped cages. Last year I fried a bunch of seedlings that I didn't uncover in time one morning. This year I got some rigid insulation and made enclosures to fit my translucent bins. I will see if that makes them at least as good as the bubblewrapped cages. If you want to grow some of the same varieties in the fall, and your spring plants are healthy, you can take cuttings. Cuttings will grow faster than seeds.

February 26, 2013	#10
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	I've never found tomatoes to be that delicate to start with. In years past I've had volunteers that have grown. I think the only reason they look studier is that seedlings grown in cooler temperatures have shorter, heavier stems and a tomato grown outside receives much more light. I've had seedling get so leggy that they could hardly remain erect. I transplanted them deep and got them into more light and they were fine. Last year I left a cup of Rutgers in the back window of a car until almost noon in the sun. It dried them out bad enough that the lost all of their little leaves and I thought I had killed them. I watered them and babied them by making sure they stayed in the shade for the next week. Seventeen of twenty made it and by the time they where ready to put in the garden you couldn't tell them from any of the others. I've transplanted them when they barely had seed leaves open. I've transplanted them when they were 18" plants in a tiny little 6 pack tray. I've started them in peat, and sand and dirt I've scooped up in the yard. They've all grown. Some have grown quicker than others but they have all grown. They only thing I've have found to be critical is enough light.

February 26, 2013	#13
Ms. Jitomate Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA Posts: 99	Delerium, I planted tomatoes in October. I purchased them at a nursery and transplanted into 4 pots and 2 raised beds. I think they would look better any other winter but this winter, even though I protected them, they got some frost damage where the leaf touched the sheet. I trimmed off a lot of leaves to avoid diseases. Today my tomatoes are ripening but they remain smaller than my summer tomatoes. The first tomatoes ripened about a month ago and they were tasteless. But now that it is warmer, my tomatoes are ripening and I pulled out a couple and they were delicious. I have about 50 tomatoes ripening in different sizes and shapes. I had two cuttings of a yellow tomato I had in the summer in two pots but they died. Could have been my lack of experience in saving a cutting. I have in the past saved one summer tomato, Champion, into the winter in a raised bed but it never looked good until February. It did give me some December tomatoes. I won't be doing that again because it could be a reason why I have nematodes in that bed. If I had to do this again, I would avoid pots because they required more attention. My original thought was that in pots, the soil would warm up better, and I could protect them easier. But I now know they need more fertilizer than in my raised bed. The rains drain the nutrients fast. I would plant again in my raised bed for winter but my tomato rotation gets limited in my backyard so I would limit it to two plants only. You learn a lot from experimenting, so next winter, give it a try.