How can some seeds in the same tray not germinate?

[John3]

I have tried this once but did not use ziplock's used a 1 oz cup that comes on some of the jars (if doing this again i would stop at McDonald's and ask to get some of those ketchup paper cups and put one seed into one cup) and fish emulsion is ok but if I had kelp I would have used it instead.
Here's the notes found on the net.
I had it all laid out better but could not find that copy - so here's the rambling notes
Maybe this will help. (Black Tea)

When I say diluted tea and fish emulsion, here is what I do:

Boil one tea bag in a small pan of about 2 cups water for a minute or two.

Discard the first batch of tea because it hasn't had time to leach the tannin outta the leaves.

Refill the small pan with another 2 cups of water and re-boil the same tea bag.

Discard the tea bag and add enough ice cubes to make a quart of diluted tea.

Put about a quarter teaspoon of fish emulsion in a quart jar with the diluted tea. Some folks use a tiny pinch of

Miracle Grow for this. You're after the nitrogen basically.

Put the lid on tight and shake until dissolving the fish emulsion (or Miracle Grow).

MAKE SURE THE SOLUTION HAS COOLED TO BELOW 80*F.

Put the tomato seeds in the jar and let them sit in this solution for 12 - 24 hours in the refrigerator to kinda

stratify them in a fake winter mode.

Run the stuff out of the jar into a fine mesh strainer and rinse the seeds off very well. Save a shot glass or two

of the solution.

Put the seeds into a folded paper towel and dampen it real good with the saved solution.

Put the packet into a Ziplock baggie and keep it at ambient room temp like 68*F - 78*F and check the seeds

beginning in about 5 days. Some folks swear by bottom heat at 75 - 85*F, but I've gotten mildew before sprouts

doin' that especially with lazy germinators. And if the seed is fresh and ready to jump outta it's shell, then we

ain't even talkin' all this trash in the first place. Just plant'm and stand back!

Check the seeds every day after 5 days until they sprout.

about the tea. It's supposedly the tannin that helps penetrate the dried out hulls of old seed. The nitrogen

is supposed to "wake up" old seed

I didn't mean to imply using the entire quart of diluted tea and fish emulsion to soak a single little bit of tomato

seeds.

What I meant to imply is that you should dilute the tea and fish emulsion down with a quart of water so the tea

isn't too strong.

Okay, first you're only using one tea bag ... and you boil it once very briefly to activate the tanin. Pour off that

first water and boil the tea bag again in fresh water to extract the tanin ... a low boil for several minutes ...

maybe about five.

THEN dilute that strong tea down by adding enough cold water to make a quart of liquid.

THEN add a teaspoon of fish emulsion to the jar and shake it up really well to disolve the fish emulsion which

usually is a very thick gunk ... almost a paste ... in the bottle it comes in. So you have to shake it up in the

diluted tea to dissolve it.

See, what you're tryin' to do here is extract the tannin from the tea bag but then water it down so it's not too

strong to tan the embryo. And you're tryin' to get just an itty bit of nitrogen to wake up the old seed ... but not

enough to burn it.

Okay, NOW you have a quart of soaking liquid and you can divide it up anyway you want. 2 pints. 4 cups. 8 half

cups. Whatever. And soak 2 or 4 or whatever separate bits of seed in each portion. You only need enough to

float the seeds actually ... and then when they sink, you know you have seed that's capable of sprouting.

(Tomato seeds or pepper seeds should sink if they are good seed. If they float at first, don't fret. Shake'm up or stir them around a bit and let them soak up some moisture.)

I would not soak different seeds together because then you don't know what you have and I like to keep my

tomatoes marked by name.

I would not save the tea after I soaked the seeds because there's a chance of having a stray seed in there and

get it mixed up with the next batch of seeds. False economy ... it isn't worth the few pennies you're saving by

salvaging the tea after you've soaked a batch of seeds. Keep those seeds separated and labeled by name tags so

you know what the heck you have in the garden.

The first batch of tea supposedly doesn't have the tannin content you're lookin' for.

The first boiling supposedly awakens the tannin but doesn't leach it out effectively. Then the second boiling

supposedly extracts the tannin.

That's the way I understood it at the GW pepper forum where I saw the deal about using tea to break into the

dried out seed coat.

The use of the fish emulsion was from another source who recommended it as an organic alternative to using a

pinch of Miracle Grow for the nitrogen.

[FILMNET]

Lakelady you said to take them out as soon as they germinate? Don't you wait for the second set of leaves before touching the babys?

[TightenUp]

Originally Posted by lakelady

thanks Jeff...do you leave it full of air, or press the air out?

seal the bag with no or little air. this way you can stack a bunch on top of each other.

i didnt use this method this year for most of my seeds as it would've been annoying to have so many bags of seeds. it also creates an extra step of moving the seeds into small cells once germinated. i did however start about 6 extra sungold f1 seeds just as backups and to either give away or throw into pots. every single one germinated.

[bughunter99]

In addition to all the variables that other have mentioned.

1. Heat mats can have areas that are too hot or too cold.
2. If parts or all of the mix have been contaminated with herbicides etc, germination will be prevented/inhibited.
3. Seeds of the same type do not all 100% sprout on the same day, this is a brilliant safety feature that mother nature has built in. I have a single cell where I planted three seeds of Maidens Gold. One sprouted 5 days after germination. One is just coming up today, 23 days later.
4. A big air pocket in the mix, a seed resting against a dry little stick, too wet of areas in the mix can all inhibit germination.
5. The site can be receiving drafts that are keeping things too cool.
6. The starting mix seems moist on the top but has pervasive dry spots throughout.
7. The seeds were planted too deep.
8. My personal favorite: Thinking you planted something in that cell, but whoops the distraction caused by the dog wanting to kill the doorbell made you forget where you were and there aren't actually any seeds in that cell at all!

Stacy

[lakelady]

thanks everyone, great tips.

Filmet, nope. As soon as the first one or two emerge, I take a tiny spoon (like for espresso coffee cups) and scoop the lot of them together and put into a small cup (like the size of the ones we used to have in the bathroom when I was a kid, except they are plastic) with starter mix . I try to disrupt as little as possible, but have found they are indeed very hearty once sprouted. Then I let the clump grow from there. I usually only put 3-5 seeds in a cell to begin with, and found if I waited too long to take them out, they got too leggy while waiting for the rest of the seedlings, and then should I take the cover off, or leave it on, etc. So I started the scooping method and it's been great, the seedlings are less leggy. Sometimes I miss a day and that's okay but I try to check them first thing in the morning before work so I can scoop out what's popped up and then get it off the heat and into the light.

My mat could be getting cooler spots as well. I do see condensation on the lid, and it's not airtight or in the sun, but I suspect some cells in the middle are not getting the same heat because the outer edge ones all sprouted far earlier.

[FILMNET]

Good then, I just start 3or4 seeds each, together and as soon as the second set of leaves pot up on all. I will empty this and put each plant in the green 4" sq pot.To the bottom, so only the new 2nd leaves are on top, 3 plants each of 15 different. Like the movies here.

[ScottinAtlanta]

Originally Posted by lakelady

Seems to be a bit of a frustration to me this year. Seeds are sown in a 72 cell pack with bottom heat and covered dome. Yet, in each tray (2 trays of 36), I have random seeds that never pop up. All the soil is about the same in regards to moisture, and I've checked the mats to make sure they heat pretty evenly, and yet....some are no shows. Like a bad date. lol

Some are more disappointing because they are from folks who want feedback so that is upsetting when you only have a few seeds. My saved seeds are all hearty and up doing well, but those Cherokee Purples, I am on the second go around, different seed stock, and these are not popping up either. what gives?

I also had no luck with Cherokee Purples, whilst others were popping up all around, in two different trays. Strange coincidence.

[TightenUp]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I also had no luck with Cherokee Purples, whilst others were popping up all around, in two different trays. Strange coincidence.

i bought my cherokee purple seeds from Remy. she posts here and her site is http://www.sampleseeds.com/

i've never had germination problems with her seeds and orders always come on the quick side.

[Barbee]

Agree with others, lots of variables so its hard to say.

I start my seeds room temp in sterile mix with a dome and once the first seed starts showing itself (I can see the loop), the dome comes off and the entire tray goes under the lights. Throughout the next few days, the rest of the seeds pop. I don't think its all that uncommon for the same variety from the same source to pop at different times.

If you are getting no germination from a particular variety and everything else is germing fine, then I would say that the germ rates were not that good for the seed you purchased and you should have sown at a higher rate ..or sometimes it is possible that an entire pack of seeds can be duds for the reasons Ted listed above such as mail issues or immature seed.

I have pretty good luck with germinating seeds from almost any source but I have had one seed vendor in particular that I get crappy germination rates from. I quit purchasing seeds from them two years ago and thats that.

[SharonRossy]

I started my seedlings last week and nothing. I fear I sowed them too deep. After reading Carolyn's comment about two weeks, I don't know what to do. I'm thinking of starting a few more and wait to see. They are getting good light and warmth.
Sharon

[Cole_Robbie]

The variety "Homesweet" was nearly a total dud for me out of dozens of varieties. I think I have one plant out of the package of seed. "Early Cherry" was also a poor germinator, about 50%.