Looking for the "perfect" tomato plant -- II

[Fred Hempel]

My perfect tomato plant produces fruits that taste between good and excellent.

My perfect tomato plant is very good to excellent with regard to production in a greenhouse environment (tied up vines).

Most importantly, my perfect tomato plant is the perfect balance between determinate and indeterminate. It is indeterminate enough to form a vine that climbs 6 to 8 feet up. But, it is "determinate" enough to eliminate the need to prune suckers. In other words, my perfect tomato plant will form a vine with the perfect balance of reproductive and vegetative shoots.

Anyone seen my perfect tomato plant?

[lemurian]

I want this, too!! I have only just in the past two years begun to TRY to keep my tomatoes pruned.. what a nightmare. Especially since last year I couldn't get them into the ground when I'd hoped and the ones I'd started began to twine around my grow lights in all directions ...

[zipcode]

New big dwarf has a habit of making very few suckers, and won't grow too tall. It is one of the more productive heirlooms I've tried (about 50). Taste is good+.
Now the bad part: catfaced fruit. Doesn't keep very well (also thin skin). Could be problematic if moisture in greenhouse, sensitive to powdery mildew and stuff.

[Fusion_power]

Can't make my mind up which of these ripe tomatoes to throw at you first Fred. Yes, I do indeed have ripe tomatoes in January.

The closest tomato I know of to your description is Eva Purple Ball, but
it seems to me that you are missing some disease tolerance traits, so maybe your perfect tomato needs to be re-defined a bit.

I'm searching for a different perfect tomato. One that will tolerate low temperatures and still grow and produce good flavored tomatoes.

And yes, I do have some material that has potential!

[bower]

Aha, that's so funny, Dar. Eva Purple Ball is for certain a perfect tasting tomato for me, but it didn't meet any of Fred's other requirements in my greenhouse conditions. It was a huge, sprawling plant with scanty although delicious production, sadly, and maybe due to being cold stressed as a seedling, I don't know. EPB at the farm greenhouse didn't produce either. But my fingers are crossed to grow out your Kimberley X EPB next spring for the taste I loved in a more adaptable plant.

In my greenhouse, Zolotoe Serdtse was the perfect balance for me, between determinate and indeterminate, with continuous, really heavy production, good tasting fruit, and no need to prune suckers, but that's because I let it bush. It may not be exactly what you're looking for, Fred, as it was only about 5 ft tall at max but wide. I caged rather than tied it and it was very low maintenance in that situation except for tying up fruit. No sucker pruned!

For indeterminate vines to 8' that are notably not vigorous suckering, I'd consider Oaxacan Jewel PL (my source Solana Seed) which is a good setter and good tasting as well - on the peachy end of fruity yellow/bicolour and pretty when sliced, very cold tolerant too but some tendency to produce smaller and seedless fruit in the heat. Moravsky Div was also notably not a vigorous suckering plant, but grew 7-8 ft in the season with as much production as Stupice in spite of fewer suckers.

Pervaya Lyubov and Black Early were relatively compact indeterminates here without too much suckering, but PLyubov shut down and croaked after the first flush instead of continuing to grow and bear past 5-6 ft both here and at the farm greenhouse. Black Early did perk up and produce again after the heat. Indian Stripe was not a big suckerer either, but by the end of season was at least 12' long, it pumped out the delicious fruit too to the bitter end so I don't mind I had to string it out horizontally on a line. I'm always looking for the compact and low maintenance qualities for my space, so I hope to learn more from this thread!

Fred, I'm so delighted that I got seed of your Blush and Pink Bumblebee in a swap this year, which I really wanted but couldn't afford to buy at this time. If you're at all interested in trying any of the vars named above please PM me I would be delighted to send you seed to contribute to your next creations.

[Fred Hempel]

Indeed, I am missing disease resistance traits. But I can find those in a number of places, so I limited the original question in this thread.

The "plant architecture" trait I described (vining with limited lateral branching) is harder for me to identify, and the trait I am really focused on.

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Can't make my mind up which of these ripe tomatoes to throw at you first Fred. Yes, I do indeed have ripe tomatoes in January.

The closest tomato I know of to your description is Eva Purple Ball, but
it seems to me that you are missing some disease tolerance traits, so maybe your perfect tomato needs to be re-defined a bit.

I'm searching for a different perfect tomato. One that will tolerate low temperatures and still grow and produce good flavored tomatoes.

And yes, I do have some material that has potential!

[Fred Hempel]

Very interesting information! Lots of good suggestions.

Originally Posted by bower

Aha, that's so funny, Dar. Eva Purple Ball is for certain a perfect tasting tomato for me, but it didn't meet any of Fred's other requirements in my greenhouse conditions. It was a huge, sprawling plant with scanty although delicious production, sadly, and maybe due to being cold stressed as a seedling, I don't know. EPB at the farm greenhouse didn't produce either. But my fingers are crossed to grow out your Kimberley X EPB next spring for the taste I loved in a more adaptable plant.

In my greenhouse, Zolotoe Serdtse was the perfect balance for me, between determinate and indeterminate, with continuous, really heavy production, good tasting fruit, and no need to prune suckers, but that's because I let it bush. It may not be exactly what you're looking for, Fred, as it was only about 5 ft tall at max but wide. I caged rather than tied it and it was very low maintenance in that situation except for tying up fruit. No sucker pruned!

For indeterminate vines to 8' that are notably not vigorous suckering, I'd consider Oaxacan Jewel PL (my source Solana Seed) which is a good setter and good tasting as well - on the peachy end of fruity yellow/bicolour and pretty when sliced, very cold tolerant too but some tendency to produce smaller and seedless fruit in the heat. Moravsky Div was also notably not a vigorous suckering plant, but grew 7-8 ft in the season with as much production as Stupice in spite of fewer suckers.

Pervaya Lyubov and Black Early were relatively compact indeterminates here without too much suckering, but PLyubov shut down and croaked after the first flush instead of continuing to grow and bear past 5-6 ft both here and at the farm greenhouse. Black Early did perk up and produce again after the heat. Indian Stripe was not a big suckerer either, but by the end of season was at least 12' long, it pumped out the delicious fruit too to the bitter end so I don't mind I had to string it out horizontally on a line. I'm always looking for the compact and low maintenance qualities for my space, so I hope to learn more from this thread!

Fred, I'm so delighted that I got seed of your Blush and Pink Bumblebee in a swap this year, which I really wanted but couldn't afford to buy at this time. If you're at all interested in trying any of the vars named above please PM me I would be delighted to send you seed to contribute to your next creations.

[travis]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

The closest tomato I know of to your description is Eva Purple Ball, but
it seems to me that you are missing some disease tolerance traits, so maybe your perfect tomato needs to be re-defined a bit.

There is no perfect tomato plant.

Fusion's suggestion comes close.

Closer yet is a line that I segregated and stabilized from Fusion's original cross of Big Beef x Eva Purple Ball.

When planted out in May, the vine gets 6 to 6.5 feet tall at the point of decline in my garden. That point is reached in late September or early October.

I consider that to be compact indeterminate growth. I only have to trim the vegetation that strays out the sides of the 3-foot diameter cages. And there are no "non-fruiting" shoots. All the side shoots produce flowers and fruit, usually 3 to 5 baseball size, crack free, delicious, pink tomatoes per truss.

There has been no crippling disease issues in the four seasons I've grown this tomato line, beginning with the F3 seeds. Yes, there may be a bit of Septoria leaf spot in the worst weather of the season, but even that doesn't cripple the plants or spot the fruit.

The fruit texture is softer than Big Beef, but a slight bit firmer than Eva Purple Ball. As I said, there is no cracking. The only exception is when you pull the fruit from the calyx, you have to be careful not to tear the tender skin around the calyx. But on the other hand, the fruit clings to the calyx and doesn't shatter (fall) from the vine when ripe as does Eva Purple Ball.

I've even been able to grow two vines per 36-inch diameter cage by setting the transplants 15 inches apart inside the cage. This was done to observe and select the better plants for seed saving, but I found it did not affect the fruit production except to slightly decrease the average size of the fruit.

Critically important to me is that the vines have been relatively free of disease and heat tolerant in respect to setting fruit in the mid-90 degree daytime temps.; some vines even setting fruit at 98*F daytime temps when the night temps. were moderate.

[Fred Hempel]

This does sound like close to the "perfect" tomato I am looking for.

Originally Posted by travis

There is no perfect tomato plant.

Fusion's suggestion comes close.

Closer yet is a line that I segregated and stabilized from Fusion's original cross of Big Beef x Eva Purple Ball.

When planted out in May, the vine gets 6 to 6.5 feet tall at the point of decline in my garden. That point is reached in late September or early October.

I consider that to be compact indeterminate growth. I only have to trim the vegetation that strays out the sides of the 3-foot diameter cages. And there are no "non-fruiting" shoots. All the side shoots produce flowers and fruit, usually 3 to 5 baseball size, crack free, delicious, pink tomatoes per truss.

There has been no crippling disease issues in the four seasons I've grown this tomato line, beginning with the F3 seeds. Yes, there may be a bit of Septoria leaf spot in the worst weather of the season, but even that doesn't cripple the plants or spot the fruit.

The fruit texture is softer than Big Beef, but a slight bit firmer than Eva Purple Ball. As I said, there is no cracking. The only exception is when you pull the fruit from the calyx, you have to be careful not to tear the tender skin around the calyx. But on the other hand, the fruit clings to the calyx and doesn't shatter (fall) from the vine when ripe as does Eva Purple Ball.

I've even been able to grow two vines per 36-inch diameter cage by setting the transplants 15 inches apart inside the cage. This was done to observe and select the better plants for seed saving, but I found it did not affect the fruit production except to slightly decrease the average size of the fruit.

Critically important to me is that the vines have been relatively free of disease and heat tolerant in respect to setting fruit in the mid-90 degree daytime temps.; some vines even setting fruit at 98*F daytime temps when the night temps. were moderate.

[KarenO]

Closest thing to perfect of all the tomatoes that I have grown so far in my short season area is pink Berkeley tie dye. vigorous, beautiful, delicious, early for a beefsteak and productive. It will be one I grow every year from now on.

KarenO

[Dutch]

Wow! I got these from Margie last year. It looks like I'll have to plant them for sure.

Dutch

[Fred Hempel]

Thanks Dutch!! I ordered them as well!

Travis,

I am assuming you are working with Lazy Ox. Do they have true-breeding lines?

[Cheryl2017]

Yea, Another great seed source

[travis]

Don't know Lazy Ox Farms. Mine look similar in color, but not quite so flat and ruffled on top.


Edit: Lazy Ox Farm, Alton, MO, appears to be Ron and Margie Lennington. They have an online sales site if you need more information. This is the first I've heard of them.

[Sun City Linda]

The suspense is killing me Travis.