Southern US Market Tomatoes

[joseph]

I acknowledge that there are tomatoes that are mushier, and tomatoes that are drier, and tomatoes that are grainier, and tomatoes that are jucier, and tomatoes that are more orange, or red, or purple, and tomatoes that are sweeter, and tomatoes that are bigger or smaller. I don't know if I'd go so far as claiming that any of those traits alone or in combination makes a better tasting (to me) or more useful (to me) tomato. I'm extremely omnivorous in my eating habits. As long as a tomato doesn't taste like poison it's good enough for me and for my customers. But all of those qualities can be affected by weather, and soil, and bugs, and other conditions. The taste traits may not be reliably stable from garden to garden and farmer to farmer.

I also live on the ecological fringe of tomatoes range: within two miles or so of the point where tomatoes cease being a viable crop. So pretty much any tomato that will produce a crop gets called a good tomato regardless of nuances in taste, or texture, or smell, or looks, or size. I am not able to grow Brandywines, or Beefsteaks, or any large sized tomatoes. I'm limited to cherry tomatoes, and saladettes, and my slicing tomatoes top out at about 8 ounce fruits. If I ever get to the point of being able to reliably grow tomatoes perhaps then I'll worry about something more subtle like taste.

When I lived in a warmer climate I grew some type of Hillbilly. Now that's a tomato!!!

It's like brand names on canned vegetables in the grocery store... Who's got the time and inclination to buy one of each and taste them and evaluate them to decide if one is better tasting than any other? And even if someone did do the testing, then the results have to be remembered... What a chore!

[epsilon]

Originally Posted by feldon30

I would be surprised if any regional pattern emerges, especially one that is applicable to Oklahoma City, Memphis, and the SE Atlantic coast, a superregion spanning 1,100 miles by 500 miles.

The King's Drive farmer's market in downtown Charlotte does steady business selling hundreds of pounds of Cherokee Purple and a pink PL beefsteak every week, as well as cherry tomatoes of all colors. In Raleigh, almost every vendor selling tomatoes at the state-run farmer's market was unloading 1 ton pickups full of German Johnson. A farmer's market 30 miles outside of the city might do its best trade in perfectly round, red, blemish-free modern hybrids from the Mountain or -insert name- Boy lines. Celebrity might fly off the shelves in one area, and rot in another.

I think you have to see what the demographics and product awareness are like at your most convenient markets and then cater to them. What sells in your nearest farmer's market is going to depend on customer awareness of heirloom tomatoes and more exotic product choices, and perceived quality of higher-priced produce.

I'd keep an ear out and ask lots of questions!

Feldon

What you've written is actually the beginning to to what would be a real awesome produce marketing research project. By having this information, we could help future small market farmers curve their growing strategies to incorporate local and regional favorites that will perform well in a given area. This is given to my belief that our society could better support a locally based agricultural model rather than the continual bolstering of large centralized farm operations the reliance of cross country logistics for things other than very specific production.

But I digress. I still think that having this information would really give us a better look into the flavor palettes of a given local culture. The implementation would be amazingly beneficial for both farmers and incoming culinary venues. I venture we could assemble a fair sample here on t'ville to with start, by utilizing a sub forum, several threads and a few different setups with the polling utility I see that anyone could yield some very interesting information.

[TomatoDon]

mensplace, I think Marglobe and Marion are the two older varieties I was trying to remember, along with Rutgers. I still see Marglobe from time to time, but don't recall seeing Marion in a while. Was Big Boy before Better Boy?
As a kid we always had great tasting tomatoes but no one ever mentioned a variety. They were probably a mix of several kinds that were locally available at the Co-Op. I don't remember anyone starting any tomatoes from seed either. I'm not sure when Bonnie's Plants came into being, but it was probably them, or a fore runner, that supplied all these little local Co-Ops in the South. I do remember a lot of talk starting about Better Boy, so that must have been something new that caught on back in the day that everyone liked.

[TomatoDon]

Epsilon, maybe Feldon will rescind his "conversation ender" status and help you conduct this research.

[mensplace]

Originally Posted by TomatoDon

mensplace, I think Marglobe and Marion are the two older varieties I was trying to remember, along with Rutgers. I still see Marglobe from time to time, but don't recall seeing Marion in a while. Was Big Boy before Better Boy?
As a kid we always had great tasting tomatoes but no one ever mentioned a variety. They were probably a mix of several kinds that were locally available at the Co-Op. I don't remember anyone starting any tomatoes from seed either. I'm not sure when Bonnie's Plants came into being, but it was probably them, or a fore runner, that supplied all these little local Co-Ops in the South. I do remember a lot of talk starting about Better Boy, so that must have been something new that caught on back in the day that everyone liked.

In our area Better Boy came a few years later than Big Boy. Rutgers has a lot of info on the evolution of the Jersey tomatoes. However, because there were few nurseries and even fewer "bigbox" rettailers a lot more people did grow there own seedlings, but not with such finesse or range of varieties as today. Few today can imagine a world without shopping centers, highways, fast food, the internet or more than when phone or car per home. Composting was generally made popular by the folks at Organic Gardening magazine, but the organic gardening was not practiced by many as NPK ruled as the de facto practice after WWII. Such was the age of melamine and "duck and cover".

[TomatoDon]

I had an average liking for tomatoes at an early age, but for some reason, and all of a sudden, I didn't like them anymore and refused to eat them for a long time.

Then one summer our church had a youth director that was a cross country runner in college and he was very popular with all the kids in church. My mother always had the preachers and their entourage over for "dinner" or supper, and during summer revival they came over for dinner (noon) one day.

My mother had these big plates of fresh sliced tomatoes, and the youth director loved tomatoes and loaded up on them, slathered with home made mayonnaise. He encouraged me to try them and I did. I've loved them ever since. I've often wondered what variety that was that brought me back into the great world of tomatoes. I've also wondered what kind it was, or what happened, to make me quit liking them earlier.

I'm guessing the ones I liked were Marglobe, Marion, Rutgers, or maybe a mix of all three. This would probably have been the summer of '71 or '72, and I don't know if Better Boy was out and well circulated by then.

[TomatoDon]

Geronimo is still the most mysterious commercial I have ever asked about here. I think it is strictly for greenhouse production. If anyone has any information about field grown Geronimo I'd like to hear about it.

Right now I have Big Beef, Brandywine Sudduth, Goliath, JD's Special C Tex, Indian Stripe, and Cherokee Purple in my patch. We have at least 100 of each, and passed the 1,100 mark today. I'm not planning to plant over 1,500 and maybe not even that many. I'm still trying to find Rutgers in quantity, but so far haven't found any. Maybe another trip to Amish land will produce some.

We are now approaching one mile of drip irrigation lines, which is the most I've ever had.

[feldon30]

I've never seen people go so nuts over one variety. While the last remaining local nursery in the city of Rock Hill (A.B. Poe Farmer's Exchange) has a decent selection of tomatoes including Black Cherry, Mortgage Lifter, Brandywine, Arkansas Traveler, Marglobe, Homestead, etc. their biggest seller by far was Better Boy. Out of ~12 tables dedicated to tomato plants, a full 3 of them were always loaded with Better Boy plants.

[Tracydr]

There are tasters, super tasters and non-tasters. My father is a non-taster and I suspect that Joseph is, too. My brother and husband are tasters and I suspect that my mother and I are super tasters, based on a simple test with saccharin.
Non-tasters really can't discern much as far as nuances of taste. That may be a good thing in some ways. Super tasters taste everything and sometimes bitter foods are too bitter for enjoyment. For example, my husband loves arugula and I don't really care for it. Bitter melon is just one of the worst things I've ever tasted.
I'm glad I can taste lots of flavors but sometimes its a bit much. For instance, we roast our coffee and use a French press. I almost can't drink regular drip-coffee.

[snippits]

Originally Posted by feldon30

I've never seen people go so nuts over one variety. While the last remaining local nursery in the city of Rock Hill (A.B. Poe Farmer's Exchange) has a decent selection of tomatoes including Black Cherry, Mortgage Lifter, Brandywine, Arkansas Traveler, Marglobe, Homestead, etc. their biggest seller by far was Better Boy. Out of ~12 tables dedicated to tomato plants, a full 3 of them were always loaded with Better Boy plants.

Better Boy and Big Boy have been selling like that I know for the last 30 years here in my neck of woods in NC.

[nathan125]

In my area i'm in a city of 100k people, surrounded by larger city and high desert farming communities. so there is a mix of wants. At the farmers market most sell, Better boy, celebrity and Early Girl and super fantastic. The oldest vendor at the market is wise i think and knows the business. He sells "Rutgers" as the only heirloom worth it he says. to quote him "Most people think just because a tomato is old it's therefore good, a lot of crap was bred that is considered 'heirloom' " . Classic and i think it's completely true, History of things like this is typically falsified and nonsense. Taste and production is what people in my area want. He says only hybrids and does well, charges same as big box i think. I think I could undercut everyone next year if i want.

[taboule]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

There are tasters, super tasters and non-tasters.

I think this has much truth to it. I'm probably a super taster too and it can be frustrating at times for the reasons you mentioned. DW says I'm too fussy.

[ChrisInNC]

Here around Raleigh most wholesalers are going to grow a hybrid. A popular one is Mountain Glory which was bred at NC State University. There are a few others which are the standard around here Primo Red, Redline and Red Defender are others I know people around here grow.

For greenhouse production it seems to be almost all Trust, though a few grow Geronimo and I actually know someone growing a field variety which is a determinate in his houses this year.

The heirlooms and old fashioned varieties sold at weekend shade tree type markets or small local stands are dominated by Cherokee Purple and German Johnsons mostly. You'll see Mr. Stripey or something similar sometimes as well. The plant I'm most asked for by the public is Better Boy. That seems to be what the average gardener around here desires to plant.

I personally experiment every year and grow about 10 different varieties and 2 of each one. San Marzano, Cherokee Purple, German Johnson and Custoluto Genovese are the staples and then I pick other interesting looking types.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by taboule

I think this has much truth to it. I'm probably a super taster too and it can be frustrating at times for the reasons you mentioned. DW says I'm too fussy.

I swear that I can taste oil going bad before anyone I know. My husband and parents can use olive oil or corn oil for months after I would throw it away. When they do, it makes everything taste awful. It is fun to enjoy various flavors in high end coffees. My favorite Ethiopian tastes strongly like blueberries if you can taste. My husband only tastes the blueberries on occassion. My father can't taste them at all.

[WVTomatoMan]

@TomatoDon and joseph: If you can't taste the difference between Green Zebra and Cherokee Purple it's one of two things. Either you've had your taste buds surgically removed or you're growing them wrong. Seriously, what you have to realize, if you're in the business of selling tomatoes, is that most people can tell the difference between those two in a blind taste test and will have strong opinions about which they prefer (more on that in a bit).

You're asking about what varieties do best and sell best for such a large geographic area? Really!? You can make some generalities, but that's about it. It comes down to community/area. For instance in an area where people like to can Celebrity and Rutgers will do well. Fifty miles away where people don't can as much those two varieties won't sell as well.

Obviously neither of you have any experiences with tomato tastings. Get 20 people to taste Green Zebra and Cherokee Purple and you'll find that out and you'll get a feel for the ratio between those that like 'em tart and those that like them sweet. You might want to see if there are any tomato festivals in your area and either attend or check with the sponsors to see what people like.

Growing for market is a very different beast these days. You have people that are just looking for round red and those that are looking for the more exotic. The percentage of people looking for each of those varies from area to area.

The one thing you might be on the right track with is seeing what people grew 20+ years ago. Many people associate with what they had as a kid. I've had many people love a certain variety I've grown because it reminds them of the tomatoes that they ate as a kid that was grown by some relative or family friend.

I compete in tomato tastings and I pretty much know what's going to do well for me going in because I've done my home work.

Good luck you're gonna need it.

Randy