Serdtse, Zolotoe and Medovoe

[JLJ_]

Just thought I'd see if anyone growing these could give me an idea if what I'm seeing is normal for these or not. (I know, pics would be useful, but I need pics for another purpose of plants in a much closer location and it's been on the "must do" list for some time . . . and if I got out to the Serdtses with the camera, the contrary critters would probably be in one of their not-odd-looking times, so I thought I wouldn't wait until I am able to get pics.

What I'm seeing, in both Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse, is an intermittent kind of wilty look in the leaves at the top of the plant -- not one or two leaves, perhaps leaves in the top quarter or top third of the plant. It first appeared perhaps a month ago. It doesn't really look like an illness -- and both plants are blooming and forming fruit happily, but this top-wilted look keeps appearing.

I see it, then after I've watered or fed them, they seem better, which may mean that it's an indicator of water or nutrient deficiency, but in the same row in one direction the next plants are Sweet Ozark Orange and in the other, Fioletovyi Kruglyi, then Black Prince -- and all of those seem completely normal -- not having any fainting fits at all.

It's different from the lighter sometimes "wispy" foliage that some of the hearts display . . . I have Anna Russians in the same garden (though not in the same row) which don't look like this -- though they are much bigger, also, which might mean that they are happier or might mean that the phenomenon is most conspicuous in smaller plants.

Anyway, I was thinking of someone who said that they'd obeyed neighborly advice and pulled out their Anna Russians because they didn't realize that their "different" foliage look was normal for them -- so I began wondering whether this intermittent top-wilty look might be normal, or at least not unusual, for Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse, or, alternatively, whether they have some special environmental need/preference that might account for their intermittent display of this, when their neighbor plants, with essentially the same soil and light, and identical watering and feeding patterns, don't show anything of the sort.

[bower]

I don't know Medovoe, but I grow Zolotoe Serdtse and I think what you're describing is normal for these plants. The shoot grows so fast that it droops over as it's emerging, is what I think. Maybe 'intermittent' because the shoot then gets thicker and supports itself better.

Can't do better than that without a picture. Or maybe a time lapse video...

[JLJ_]

Thanks for reply -- I know you understand growing in conditions where sane people don't grow tomatoes -- or don't expect much from them if they do.

It's not just stems drooping, the leaves look wilty -- intermittently -- in the top section. They look like leaves do if you have a plant that wilts on a hot day because of not enough water then revives because you see the problem in time and water it before damage is done. But only in the top section of the plant, and its neighbors (or others in the garden) aren't wilting at all. And when the Serdtses revive they look pretty much normal for heart tomato foliage.

And while they are growling adequately -- for here -- and look generally, wispily healthy -- they're not shooting up fast -- I wonder if that might be something you see because of very long days in midsummer? Here, both are among the smallest plants in the garden -- but that didn't concern me as they are making fruit and compact growth was mentioned in association with them.

[bower]

JLJ, ZS is a true 'semi-determinate'. You'll notice that there is only one or two leaves between flower clusters. It will put out a lot of fruiting suckers and will get bushy but not tall.

I learned something about ZS this year. I delayed planting because of the horrible weather you mentioned above. Most of the plants seemed to benefit, and made up for lost time in the warmer weather with shorter DTM's, but ZS was later. They really tolerate cool weather but seem to need time to get strong roots under them and to bush out before they will set fruit.

Maybe they need the extra water because they're growing roots like crazy?

Another thing about the plant architecture, every branch of ZS has to carry a load of fruit. Getting bushy is their way of giving those fruit some support. If they don't feel supported, maybe they respond by drooping? Extra support might help.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by bower

JLJ, ZS is a true 'semi-determinate'. You'll notice that there is only one or two leaves between flower clusters. It will put out a lot of fruiting suckers and will get bushy but not tall.

I learned something about ZS this year. I delayed planting because of the horrible weather you mentioned above. Most of the plants seemed to benefit, and made up for lost time in the warmer weather with shorter DTM's, but ZS was later. They really tolerate cool weather but seem to need time to get strong roots under them and to bush out before they will set fruit.

Maybe they need the extra water because they're growing roots like crazy?

Another thing about the plant architecture, every branch of ZS has to carry a load of fruit. Getting bushy is their way of giving those fruit some support. If they don't feel supported, maybe they respond by drooping? Extra support might help.

It's not a "needs support drooping" type issue -- besides, I patrol and add support to all the tomatoes with plenty of grey terrycloth multipurpose utility devices.

But a greater need of water might be a consideration. Or a different root structure -- perhaps not putting roots as deep as most tomatoes, or having some other characteristic variation in root structure, leading to less tolerance for the usual more moisture/less moisture cycle that is survivable, even desirable, to most in-ground tomatoes. (I'm talking about the normal moisture variation produced by regular watering every x days, not drought/drowned type variation.)

That's why I was wondering whether others were seeing something similar in these varieties, especially in a context where nearby other tomatoes are not showing any 'wilty' behavior. If so, it might suggest some environmental adjustment that might be useful to these.

Whatever it is, my one Medovoe and four Zolotoes are certainly displaying leaf behavior different from their neighbors -- it's not just a one spot or one plant thing.

[bower]

I really didn't find ZS any different than other 'wispy' varieties - but I have made myself ignore the plants with droopy habit when it comes to judge whether plants are wilting.

If the water is working, I'd say keep that up and hope for the best. If not, post some pix and more knowledgeable folks than I may be able to help.