Seedling struggles this year. Please help - Page 2

clkeiper · February 23, 2015

I agree, and I used dawn which I often use especially if I need a wetting agent for really dry potting mix, but maybe it isn't the best thing to do. I suppose I should experiment some, but I seem to run out of time to keep an eye on such things.
Maybe soaking the seeds for a few hours and then rinsing them might work, but this surly didn't.

NewCreature · February 26, 2015

Thanks all for your suggestions. I planted another batch using Jiffy pellets exactly according to their specifications. I didn't use the heat mat this time and got a little better germination (about 25%), but what came out of the soil was spindly and pitiful and most of them lasted a few days under the grow light and then they shriveled up.

I watered them sparingly with a 1/8 tsp of miracle grow per gallon mixture and kept my LED grow light about 3" above them about 14 hours per day.

I am running out of time as I really wanted to get them into the ground (actually hydroponic dutch buckets) by 4/1 at the latest, so now I am going to switch over to some seedling starting mix and see if that will bring about success.

Mike
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Gardeneer · February 27, 2015

I have not had time to read all the posts but i like to make couple points:

1) you' ll need heat mat (if needed) just for germination. Once you get them sprouted no longer heat mat is neede.

2) you'll need light after germination.

On the starting medium

I have heard a lot of people having problems with plug type of starting. They either get too soggy or dray out fast. For small quantity I use zip bag method. For larger quantity I use pine bark fines + perlite + DE (floor dry). DE works as moisture retention agent while perlite facilitates drainage. Pine bark fine gives it a good structure to aerate . This is the same mix that I use for all my pottings (tomatoes, peppers). It is a revised version of Al's 5-1-1 formula. I just replace peat moss with DE.

clkeiper · February 27, 2015

Give the seeds time. sometimes some just take longer than others. I had a batch of seeds that straggled in germination. One here and there til they all germinated. All were the same variety, too. Be patient and if you want to try your heat mat that you were using I would suggest setting them on maybe some canning rings or such to elevate them from direct contact. Put a thermometer in with them, too and watch how warm the tray gets.

The ones that are "pitiful... "pet" them everyday a few times or place them where they get some fan breeze blowing on them to simulate outdoor breezes. An oscillating fan is perfect for this. They just may surprise you how sturdy the stems get.

luigiwu · February 27, 2015

I have great success using seed starting mix. Last year I used MG's and this year I'm trying Espoma. You just need a container to hold the mix, like cells or yogurt cups etc.
Pepper seeds are greatly aided by using a heat mat but unless you have a thermostat on it , you really really really need to measure and monitor it as they run much hotter than people think they do... I am too cheap to buy a thermostat but I have my seeds elevator above the mat, above a cookie rack etc AND I have a wireless thermometer in there at all times....

I learned everything from watching the NCtomatoman stickies about dense planting!

daninpd · March 1, 2015

The first year I started from seed I used the peat pellets and had something like a 25% germination rate, so I started a new tray using Jiffy Seed Starting Mix and had about a 95% germination rate. Been using that ever since.

ginger2778 · March 1, 2015

This is the same thing I use, with a 72 empty cell tray. Big Lots has them for about $5. I also wipe them out and reuse them the next season. I never ever use heat, nor a dome, but I use grow lights that are fluorescent. I had LED lights, and mine got leggy and spindly. I never ever use any fertilizer until the seedlings have a second set of true leaves forming, and are transplanted to 4" pots, and then its just a tiny pinch of tomato tone. I get about 90% or better germination, my seeds are sown with wetting the mix, then laying the seeds on top, then just a dusting of seed start mix over them, not even 1/4 inch deep at all. Then a spray bottle mists the mix that is put on top. No covering or dome.
I agree, you should watch the dense planting videos and adapt it to your needs. They are only a few minutes each. Found in the starting from seed forum.
I should mention that I dont need heat or domes because mine germinate in 87-92 degree heat in mid August due to having to grow in the winter here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigiwu

I have great success using seed starting mix. Last year I used MG's and this year I'm trying Espoma. You just need a container to hold the mix, like cells or yogurt cups etc.
Pepper seeds are greatly aided by using a heat mat but unless you have a thermostat on it , you really really really need to measure and monitor it as they run much hotter than people think they do... I am too cheap to buy a thermostat but I have my seeds elevator above the mat, above a cookie rack etc AND I have a wireless thermometer in there at all times....

I learned everything from watching the NCtomatoman stickies about dense planting!

bughunter99 · March 1, 2015

Hi Mike,

Personally I think there is no harder way to grow seeds than with those pellets they are either too wet or too dry.

I would get yourself some organic seed starting mix. Personally I skip the miracle grow mix because I do not to start my seeds in anything that has fertilizer in it. I like to control that myself. Seeds do not need fertilizer to get started and too much to soon can give you all kinds of issues.

So. Make sure everything you are using is very clean. If you are using last years pots soak them in a 10% bleach solution for ten minutes to be sure you have killed anything bad. You almost sound like you are having a damping off issue.
Organic seed starting mix, moistened in another tub and then put into cells.
If not using traditional seed starting cells, make sure whatever you are using drains very well.
Keep this flat away from any flat that has been having issues.
Plant your seeds two to a cell about 1/2" deep. Gently cover them up.
Keep them off heat
Keep them in a humid environment with a cover.
Light gets added the same day they sprout and keep it low and over them.
Give them a little flick with your finger every day or even better a gentle freeze from a fan helps toughen them up but it will dry them out faster too, so watch carefully.

Bottom water only the whole time they are in pots. Moist, not wet.

DO NOT FERTILIZE UNTIL THEY GET THEIR FIRST SET OF REAL LEAVES, and then make it only 1/4 strength of what is recommended. Consider an organic fish emulsion as it is gentler.

Stacy

February 23, 2015	#16
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	I agree, and I used dawn which I often use especially if I need a wetting agent for really dry potting mix, but maybe it isn't the best thing to do. I suppose I should experiment some, but I seem to run out of time to keep an eye on such things. Maybe soaking the seeds for a few hours and then rinsing them might work, but this surly didn't. __________________ carolyn k

February 27, 2015	#19
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	Give the seeds time. sometimes some just take longer than others. I had a batch of seeds that straggled in germination. One here and there til they all germinated. All were the same variety, too. Be patient and if you want to try your heat mat that you were using I would suggest setting them on maybe some canning rings or such to elevate them from direct contact. Put a thermometer in with them, too and watch how warm the tray gets. The ones that are "pitiful... "pet" them everyday a few times or place them where they get some fan breeze blowing on them to simulate outdoor breezes. An oscillating fan is perfect for this. They just may surprise you how sturdy the stems get. __________________ carolyn k Last edited by clkeiper; February 27, 2015 at 10:38 PM.

February 27, 2015	#20
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	I have great success using seed starting mix. Last year I used MG's and this year I'm trying Espoma. You just need a container to hold the mix, like cells or yogurt cups etc. Pepper seeds are greatly aided by using a heat mat but unless you have a thermostat on it , you really really really need to measure and monitor it as they run much hotter than people think they do... I am too cheap to buy a thermostat but I have my seeds elevator above the mat, above a cookie rack etc AND I have a wireless thermometer in there at all times.... I learned everything from watching the NCtomatoman stickies about dense planting! __________________ Subirrigated Container gardening (RGGS) in NY, Zone 7! Last edited by luigiwu; February 27, 2015 at 11:05 PM.

March 1, 2015	#21
daninpd Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prunedale, CA Posts: 134	The first year I started from seed I used the peat pellets and had something like a 25% germination rate, so I started a new tray using Jiffy Seed Starting Mix and had about a 95% germination rate. Been using that ever since. __________________ I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

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February 26, 2015	#17
NewCreature Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Flint, TX Posts: 19	Thanks all for your suggestions. I planted another batch using Jiffy pellets exactly according to their specifications. I didn't use the heat mat this time and got a little better germination (about 25%), but what came out of the soil was spindly and pitiful and most of them lasted a few days under the grow light and then they shriveled up. I watered them sparingly with a 1/8 tsp of miracle grow per gallon mixture and kept my LED grow light about 3" above them about 14 hours per day. I am running out of time as I really wanted to get them into the ground (actually hydroponic dutch buckets) by 4/1 at the latest, so now I am going to switch over to some seedling starting mix and see if that will bring about success. Mike <><

February 27, 2015	#18
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,917	I have not had time to read all the posts but i like to make couple points: 1) you' ll need heat mat (if needed) just for germination. Once you get them sprouted no longer heat mat is neede. 2) you'll need light after germination. On the starting medium I have heard a lot of people having problems with plug type of starting. They either get too soggy or dray out fast. For small quantity I use zip bag method. For larger quantity I use pine bark fines + perlite + DE (floor dry). DE works as moisture retention agent while perlite facilitates drainage. Pine bark fine gives it a good structure to aerate . This is the same mix that I use for all my pottings (tomatoes, peppers). It is a revised version of Al's 5-1-1 formula. I just replace peat moss with DE.

March 1, 2015	#23
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	Hi Mike, Personally I think there is no harder way to grow seeds than with those pellets they are either too wet or too dry. I would get yourself some organic seed starting mix. Personally I skip the miracle grow mix because I do not to start my seeds in anything that has fertilizer in it. I like to control that myself. Seeds do not need fertilizer to get started and too much to soon can give you all kinds of issues. So. Make sure everything you are using is very clean. If you are using last years pots soak them in a 10% bleach solution for ten minutes to be sure you have killed anything bad. You almost sound like you are having a damping off issue. Organic seed starting mix, moistened in another tub and then put into cells. If not using traditional seed starting cells, make sure whatever you are using drains very well. Keep this flat away from any flat that has been having issues. Plant your seeds two to a cell about 1/2" deep. Gently cover them up. Keep them off heat Keep them in a humid environment with a cover. Light gets added the same day they sprout and keep it low and over them. Give them a little flick with your finger every day or even better a gentle freeze from a fan helps toughen them up but it will dry them out faster too, so watch carefully. Bottom water only the whole time they are in pots. Moist, not wet. DO NOT FERTILIZE UNTIL THEY GET THEIR FIRST SET OF REAL LEAVES, and then make it only 1/4 strength of what is recommended. Consider an organic fish emulsion as it is gentler. Stacy