Leaves turning pale green and red veins

[Jdubst13]

Hi everyone,
I have a concern about some of my tomato plants. I planted some tomatoes in containers about 3 weeks ago and they looked to be doing great. But in the last few days the the lower leaves are starting to turn a pale green and are starting to get some red veins. I doubt is is a nutrient deficiency but I could be wrong. I used GreenAll soil booster and added Bone Meal, Epsom salt, kelp extract, and fertilizer in the soil. What is going on?

[digsdirt]

Could you possibly post a picture? A description is so subjective that it is difficult to even begin guessing. For example: red veins might be purple veins and indicative of a phos deficiency but that is just speculation.

I will say that I think you went way over-board on all the amendments, especially for containers since organic supplements are of very limited benefit in containers. There is no soil food web established to digest them so the plants can use them.

What size are your containers? What potting mix are they filled with?

Dave

[Jdubst13]

Originally Posted by digsdirt

Could you possibly post a picture? A description is so subjective that it is difficult to even begin guessing. For example: red veins might be purple veins and indicative of a phos deficiency but that is just speculation.

I will say that I think you went way over-board on all the amendments, especially for containers since organic supplements are of very limited benefit in containers. There is no soil food web established to digest them so the plants can use them.

What size are your containers? What potting mix are they filled with?

Dave

Thanks, I will try to post some pics later when I get off work. I have them in 10-15 gallon containers. I used GreenAll potting soil mixed with soil booster (this was recommended by my local nursery).

[RayR]

While we wait for the pictures, the description of red veins is consistent with phosphorus deficiency, the description of lighter green leaves on the older growth is consistent with nitrogen deficiency. That doesn't mean there is an actual deficiency of those nutrients, I would say that's highly unlikely looking at the contents of the EB Stone potting soil and Soil Booster. Deficiencies can be induced by over-watering which starves the roots and the nutrient cycling microbes of oxygen.
I'm sure there are beneficial bacteria in the GreenAll products, it's natural with products containing manures, worm castings and composts. Do they add additional beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizae to their products too?

[TexasTycoon]

A picture would really help. How are the undersides of the leaves looking?

Also, red veins seem to be more consistent with nitrogen or sulfur deficiency than phosphorus deficiency (which would show more purple veins and undersides). Take a look at the nitrogen and sulfur deficiency pictures here and see if that's what your leaves look like: http://www.haifa-group.com/knowledge...ency_symptoms/

[Jdubst13]

Thanks for the link. I would say the nitrogen deficiency pic looks closest to what I have going on. The oldest bottom leaves look the worst but seems to be making it's way up the whole plant. Even the upper newer leaves that are still green are starting to show some red veins on the bottom of the leaves at the sides. Also I haven't watered much, just when I planted them and maybe a couple times a week if that. The soil is pretty dry when I stick my finger in.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Jdubst13

Thanks for the link. I would say the nitrogen deficiency pic looks closest to what I have going on. The oldest bottom leaves look the worst but seems to be making it's way up the whole plant. Even the upper newer leaves that are still green are starting to show some red veins on the bottom of the leaves at the sides. Also I haven't watered much, just when I planted them and maybe a couple times a week if that. The soil is pretty dry when I stick my finger in.

Underwatering can have the same effect. Roots can't take up nutrients without sufficient water and microbes can't cycle nutrients without sufficient water either.

[Jdubst13]

Originally Posted by RayR

Underwatering can have the same effect. Roots can't take up nutrients without sufficient water and microbes can't cycle nutrients without sufficient water either.

Yeah still trying to figure out the best watering schedule. The top 4-5 inches of soil is dry but starts to feel damp after that. Is that not enough water?

[digsdirt]

A "schedule" for watering isn't always the best for the plants. It usually leads to periods of over-watering followed by periods of under-watering. That inconsistent soil moisture level creates several problems for the plants as already mentioned.

The ideal is to learn to read the plants as they will indicate by lost leaf turgor when they need water. Failing that sticking your hand or even a wooden dowel deep into the soil can give you better feedback on when to water. Since most gardeners have a heavy tendency to over-water I always tell them, when in doubt - don't do it. Plants will tolerate under-watering better than they will over-watering.

And, if you can see your soil surface - which is never a good indicator for water anyway - then the plants aren't heavily mulched as they should be. That practice alone can stabilize soil moisture levels and save water.

Dave

[Jdubst13]

Ok thanks. I use a small layer of rubber mulch.

[Jdubst13]

Here are a couple pics of the worst ones.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Jdubst13

Ok thanks. I use a small layer of rubber mulch.

Geez! Not rubber mulch, that stuff is toxic.

[Jdubst13]

Originally Posted by RayR

Geez! Not rubber mulch, that stuff is toxic.

Oh crap, the guy at home depot said it was fine, dam I'm gonna remove it now!

[Jdubst13]

I got all the rubber mulch removed, man I feel like a dummy. I've should have know better but I'm new to this. Guess I'm not taking advise from the home depot guy anymore. Do you think my plants will recover or did I poison them to death?

[digsdirt]

You could try flushing out the pot well with water then I would give them a good feeding of a well balanced fertilizer of your choice. They are quite anemic looking in the pics - can't see what the new top growth looks like. Is it healthy looking and dark green or is it anemic looking too?

As for the potting mix you used, no personal experience with but I have read several mixed reviews about it in the past. Based on that reading I wouldn't be inclined to trust the available nutrient levels in it. Would you be inclined to try one of the many organic (if you want to go that route) liquid fertilizers to supplement the nutrients. Wouldn't take more than a few days after trying it to see a marked improvement in the plant. That way you'd know for sure what the underlying issue is.

If so then while I don't push any specific products/brands look for one of the fish emulsion or fish + kelp blends available.

If the use of synthetics is ok with you then a 1/2 strength dose of water soluble Miracle Grow will kick start them back into shape.

Dave