Dehybridizing plants questions

[imp]

Disclaimer- this is most likely way above my pay grade, but it has caught my attention, at least for now, <smile>. Dang hyper activity.

I have a carnival squash from the store. I know Carnivals are hybrids from a bush acorn type and a delicata type. I am guessing that I *should* get something edible (since I like both of those squashes ) from a grow out, yes? Or might it be completely weirded out?

So, I know planting the seeds will not likely produce Carnivals as this fruit, but with two rather good tasting parents, do you think I would get squash worth eating from the seeds if I grew them out?

I know if one is growing a hybrid one has made , each generation is called F 1m F 2m etc, so what do you call generations of growouts to either dehybridize or to get an OP Carnival Squash?

I mean, I know this Carnival I am holding is called an F1, but if I plant the seeds, would those generations also be as R1, and such or a different naming convention?

[travis]

If the Carnival F1 squash you took seeds from happened to be grown nearby other Cucurbita pepo varieties, you might get any number of recombinations besides just those with acorn and Delicata inputs.

[Fred Hempel]

If you any gourds, you definitely don't want to used saved seed.

[joseph]

I love dehybridizing squash. When two very edible squash that I like get crossed, their descendants are most often even better tasting squash. It's easy enough to cull out any off types, and to move the population in the preferred direction.

[imp]

Originally Posted by travis

If the Carnival F1 squash you took seeds from happened to be grown nearby other Cucurbita pepo varieties, you might get any number of recombinations besides just those with acorn and Delicata inputs.

Originally Posted by Fred Hempel

If you any gourds, you definitely don't want to used saved seed.

Originally Posted by joseph

I love dehybridizing squash. When two very edible squash that I like get crossed, their descendants are most often even better tasting squash. It's easy enough to cull out any off types, and to move the population in the preferred direction.

Okay, forget the Carnival squash I bought to eat- let's say I buy seeds for Carnival squash, so it's not likely to be crossed with gourds.

Or should Ijust start with a bush acorn and a Delicata I like and cross them to get to the F1 Carnival squash, then keep planting each group that looks like /tastes like I want?

That leaves my other questions still, if anyone has some answers? Please?

[Fred Hempel]

The key is to avoid crossing that is not consistent with your goals.

So I suggest you start with purchased F1 seed for the Carnival squash.

Then you need to make sure you don't grow anything else in the "Pepo" group of squash (most summer squash and gourds -- Delicata and Acorn are the exceptions, as they are "winter squash " from the group).

And you need to make sure your next door neighbor isn't growing "Pepo" squash.

If your squash is not going to be contaminated by pollen from other Pepo squash, then you can save F2 seed from your plants and grow it out in the future, to select new squash that is a combination of the two parents.

But, each year you run the project, you need to make sure no other "Pepo" squash are around.

If there are other Pepo squash around, or if you want to select more strongly for the kinds of squash you like in your population, you will need to learn how to hand pollinate and bag blossoms (to eliminate natural pollinations). If you hand pollinate, you can dramatically increase the development of a new squash type you like, because you can choose the parents. Otherwise the bees will choose for you, and their pollination will be much less discriminating.

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by imp

Okay, forget the Carnival squash I bought to eat- let's say I buy seeds for Carnival squash, so it's not likely to be crossed with gourds.

Good starting point - Pinetree $1.95

http://www.superseeds.com/products/c...hybrid-85-days

[imp]

Originally Posted by Fred Hempel

The key is to avoid crossing that is not consistent with your goals.

So I suggest you start with purchased F1 seed for the Carnival squash.

Then you need to make sure you don't grow anything else in the "Pepo" group of squash (most summer squash and gourds -- Delicata and Acorn are the exceptions, as they are "winter squash " from the group).

And you need to make sure your next door neighbor isn't growing "Pepo" squash.

If your squash is not going to be contaminated by pollen from other Pepo squash, then you can save F2 seed from your plants and grow it out in the future, to select new squash that is a combination of the two parents.

But, each year you run the project, you need to make sure no other "Pepo" squash are around.

If there are other Pepo squash around, or if you want to select more strongly for the kinds of squash you like in your population, you will need to learn how to hand pollinate and bag blossoms (to eliminate natural pollinations). If you hand pollinate, you can dramatically increase the development of a new squash type you like, because you can choose the parents. Otherwise the bees will choose for you, and their pollination will be much less discriminating.

No one grows anything but grass and trees near me, for more than a mile or so, and with lots of big houses also breaking things up- I live inter urban I guess you'd call it. But I also know how to hand pollinate and bag blossoms, if that would be best to move things along.

So, starting with a purchased Carnival seeds, which are an F1, would the seeds grown out from those fruits be called an F1 or an F2?

Originally Posted by RJGlew

Good starting point - Pinetree $1.95

http://www.superseeds.com/products/c...hybrid-85-days

Thank you, they are a good company!

[Gardeneer]

I have grown bottle , birdhouse and swan gourds. They are very different , have white flowers that open after dusk, when most of the pollinators have called it a day. So I had to hand pollinate them one by one and never had a failure.. So this way you can be sure of purity. I never save squash/cucumber seeds. It is easier to just buy them .
Gardeneer

[Fred Hempel]

The seeds you bought are F1 (hybrid).

The seeds from the fruits on the F1 plants in your garden will be F2 seeds.

When you grow up the F2 plants from the F2 seed, that is where you will see the mixing of traits.

So, you don't get to start the fun part of your project for awhile.

To speed up the process, you may want to consider growing seeds from fruits you purchase (because you could get ahead one generation).

If you do use seeds from purchased squash, this is a case where you would want to buy squash that was produced on a large farm. Larger growers grow in larger blocks than small diversified farms, and thus the seed in the fruits are more likely to be Carnival F2 seed that is contaminated at a very low level by pollen from other squash.

[imp]

Thank you, that answers the naming convention question, too.

I guess I will see what happens- both parents of Carnival are good tasting, so hopefully the next generation will also be tasty even if weird.