Tomato Plants and Sulfur

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by slugworth

I used to throw a pack of matches in each hole but never noticed any difference.
I have dusting sulfur but lost my duster.

Matches are mostly phosphorus.

An old sock works good for dusting.
Just fill it up and shake it around.

Worth

[b54red]

Originally Posted by brownrexx

You really do not know if your plants need sulfur or any other nutrient without doing a soil test. It is like deciding that your food needs salt without tasting it first.

I never add fertilizers, only compost and organic mulches and my soil test this year showed that phosphorus and magnesium were off of the scale high so adding more would be detrimental to my garden and adding sodium is rarely a good idea.

Many people want to add fertilizer every year and think that they are benefiting their plants but unless you are growing in containers and flushing out the nutrients, you probably don't need all of the nutrients that you are adding and they can build up to toxic levels.

My soil test also showed high in both of those and it was explained to me by the specialist at the state agricultural school that adding compost and certain manures will raise your Phosphorus levels dramatically over time and if your soil is too alkaline the levels will keep rising. The problem is with soil too alkaline most of that phosphorus is not able to be taken up by the plants.

Worth is right about the vinegar treatment. It will release a lot of iron and phosphorus unless a solution too strong is used then it can be deadly because too much phosphorus is taken up by the plants. I actually had some tomatoes one year die from phosphorus poisoning when I was experimenting with using the vinegar soak to help when my soil was so alkaline. I started out with one ounce to the gallon and kept increasing it. I would do this to two or three plants and then go to the next two or three and increase the dose just to see what would happen. I can't remember how strong the solution was that caused the super intake of phosphorus but it was pretty high probably between 4 and 6 ounces of vinegar to the gallon. After a week almost all the plants looked much better except the ones receiving the lowest and highest concentrations of vinegar. I went online and looked up the symptoms the plants that received the highest doses of vinegar were showing and it was phosphorus poisoning. It only happened to the younger plants but it was a good caution to go slow. I still use the vinegar soak if any plants start showing iron deficiency and for my bell peppers which need a heavier dose of phosphorus than tomatoes so I do this for my bells every year at least once.

Adding cow or horse manure increases the amount of phosphorus and repeated adding will result in very high levels. The vinegar treatment is a good way to release some of the phosphorus in highly alkaline soils but it is a temporary thing as the ph will quickly return to its normal level a week or so later, maybe even sooner. I no longer use any cow or horse manure and only use chicken manure as they are not fed green plant matter. The specialist explained to reduce the phosphorus levels significantly would require growing a cover crop and removing it and not putting it back into the soil by tilling it in or composting it and returning it to the garden. He said it would take years of doing this to really take the levels I had down to normal but he did advise me not to rely too heavily on compost made from the green stuff from my garden. I started relying on cottonseed meal much more because it is relatively low in phosphorus and is very acidic. I still use some compost but much more sparingly and mostly for where my tomatoes and peppers and squash will be planted. I never compost those plants and always let them go out with the trash at the end of each season or whenever they are finished. Doing this has reduced the phosphorus and magnesium levels even though I use Texas Tomato Food regularly. This has also resulted in a much lower ph though still a bit too high. Everything in the garden is doing much better and I will continue this regimen as long as it continues to improve my garden.

The only drawback to not adding the large amounts of manure and compost has been a reduction in organic matter in my soil and thus a more sandy soil. I am going to try pine bark fines and peat to see if I can improve the soil structure without my old standbys.

Bill

[Worth1]

Bill the peat will be a very good choice.
I know I have been made fun of in some fashion here for my ways by some people but it work for me.
If soil foams with diluted acid put on it, it is way alkali.
The stuff looked like foam on a root beer when I sprayed it on.

Worth

[brownrexx]

The only manure that I add to my compost is chicken manure. I only have 10 hens so it is not really a lot of manure but all of my kitchen and garden waste as well as grass clippings go in there too.

My soil is not really all that alkaline. The pH was about 7.2 and I have added sulfur over the last 2 years and dropped it to 6.8 which is good.

This year I will add no compost to the garden. I am just going to spread it around the fruit trees and flower beds.

The Penn State soil specialist recommended that I only sidedress with feather meal which is 11-0-0 or maybe corn glutein meal which is 9-0-0. Of course corn glutein meal will prevent seeds from sprouting so I need to be careful where I might use that. I am going to look for some feather meal to use on my tomatoes and corn.

My phosphorus is not at a high enough level to be toxic but I definitely don't want to add any more.

These results are why I recommend that people stop adding fertilizer each season without knowing if they really need any. We have been tricked into thinking that our plants need X, Y and Z and many times they are just fine without additional fertilizers and additives. In fact these additional things may be detrimental to the plants.