Plant management - Page 10

AKmark · June 29, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nematode

Was looking at that based on your earlier comments Mark.
Umass does them for.$30.
Wasn't sure about their sample procedure, they want 30 compound leaves from near the top of the plant. Short on detail there.
I'll wait till tomorrow because it's 8:00 here.

Check Servi Tech in Kansas, they want 12 random leaves from different areas of the GH that best represent your plants. They ask for the newest mature leaf on each chosen plant, it seems to be the 5th-6th from the top for me.

Nematode · June 29, 2017

Samples should be at Spectrum Analytics in Ohio tomorrow. They say I should have results Monday.

EC = 1.9
PH = 6.2

I'll let it run there for a while.

Thanks for the input all.

AKmark · June 29, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nematode

Samples should be at Spectrum Analytics in Ohio tomorrow. They say I should have results Monday.

EC = 1.9
PH = 6.2

I'll let it run there for a while.

Thanks for the input all.

I have found it to be the best practice when I follow the directions written by the experts who make and sell a product, or have vast experience in a field of any sort.

HG recommends for 4-18-38 very specific doses/ EC, PPM, at various stages of the plants growth stages.

In your situation I would have flushed the plants and got right on the program they recommend. It takes 10 days to see results, and your lab results will not show the current ratio you adjusted too. At the least make sure you are taking good notes, I have page after page for references, which also includes the weather.

Do you minus out your source water EC too?

Good luck

Nematode · June 29, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKmark

I have found it to be the best practice when I follow the directions written by the experts who make and sell a product, or have vast experience in a field of any sort.

HG recommends for 4-18-38 very specific doses/ EC, PPM, at various stages of the plants growth stages.

In your situation I would have flushed the plants and got right on the program they recommend. It takes 10 days to see results, and your lab results will not show the current ratio you adjusted too. At the least make sure you are taking good notes, I have page after page for references, which also includes the weather.

Do you minus out your source water EC too?

Good luck

That's really good advice.
Not sure how I got so far off base.
Masterblend is short on usage detail. Thought I was using chem-gro but switched to mb along the way...

zipcode · June 30, 2017

So looking at the chemgro page: https://hydro-gardens.com/product/to...box-4-18-38x5/
I see they have 2 stages, up to 4th cluster and after, quite simple.
What I don't understand is how you adjust the EC. They say add this and this amount of that, adjust pH. How do you adjust the EC if the amounts are fixed?
And why does decreasing the EC lead to less nutrients absorbed? I thought the amount is more or less the same as long as it's not under what the plants would want, and it's just the amount of water that differs.

Nematode · June 30, 2017

Zip,
If you are using concentrate tanks, EC is adjusted by varying the amount of concentrate injected into the feed water to make the nutrient solution. Their recipe is a starting point to achieve that goal.
I start at 100:1, and adjust injection ratio to get desired EC.

EC is a measure of fertilizer strength. It can be too strong or too weak, just like soil conditions, and the plants respond accordingly. I understand this concept, but have had some difficulty with effective implementation.

Nematode · June 30, 2017

Ok so back to basics.
Using chem gro mature heirloom formula for 100gal. My source has little to no calcium so I added the CaCl to the calcium tank.
Ec came out at 2.0 minus source, right on the recommended value.
Ph 6.2.
Will irrigate at double rate to flush.
Will let them ride on this formula. It is MUCH less N than I was running, that may have inhibited the fruit set. Well that along with the herbicide, but that's another issue.
Guess I jacked Marks awesome thread and turned it into Nematodes screw up thread. Sorry.

Nematode · July 5, 2017

Tissue analysis back
N high
K borderline low
Ca low
Copper high
Zinc borderline low.
S high, likely cause is high N.

The changes made already will mostly address these levels.
Copper was sprayed a week before the sample, but the feed is inexplicably high in copper as.well.

Plants are looking better already. Went through a "classic high N" phase of new leaves looking like a fist on top of the plant. New growth is still pretty distorted, not normal but getting better.
Sungold is faring best, leaves are opening flat and wide as opposed to laying along the stem.
Potato leaf types still having trouble.
EC 1.9 with source zeroed out
Ph 6.1.
Minor iron def showing on new growth, will leave settings alone for now.

zipcode · July 5, 2017

Interesting, Zinc is considered along with Boron important for flower setting, and on Copper sprays it does say not to use during flowering (although I can't find any research regarding soil copper inhibiting flowers).

AKmark · July 5, 2017

It is nice to see a group of growers using the support that is in place to help make us successful. Since I started using these tools, I have found improvements in so many areas, production, overall plant vigor, less waste with 2nd grade fruit, and taste of the fruit is tops.

Keep sharing your methods, results good or bad, anything concerning plant management.

PureHarvest · July 6, 2017

Nematode, how did you do the actual sampling?
Did multiple varieties go into 1 sample?
How many plants comprised one sample?

Nematode · July 6, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Nematode, how did you do the actual sampling?
Did multiple varieties go into 1 sample?
How many plants comprised one sample?

Didn't have a clue so I called the lab and said what u want?
30 x first mature compound leaf, which was about the 4th or 5th from the growing point.

Firmly compacted they need about the size of a softball to have adequate material for the test.

Other labs or tests may have different sample location and size requirements.

I got my sample, and dehydrated it so it wouldnt rot over the weekend in the mail.

Not saying they are the best or anything, but Spectrum Analytics in OH, did mine.
Was nice because you can view your report online same day it's done, which is the day after they receive it. $20ish as I recall.

I only have a couple each of many varieties, so yes many varieties in my sample.
They have several "tomato" tests, greenhouse, field etc. I just picked generic tomato.

Hardest part was ripping off all the leaves. It hurt.

PureHarvest · July 6, 2017

Good info.
I hear u on the leaf removal.
I've been dragging my feet on taking my first sample, because I worry about getting a composite sample.
If I had 100 or more of the same variety, no big deal.
My concern with my set up, is that every variety looks slightly different. And then different plants of the same variety look a little different. So I wonder how I can really get enough leaves to make a composite sample without stripping all of one variety?
Or maybe that doesn't matter so much because they are all getting the same feed. But are they all uptaking the same elements?
I'm gonna stop overthinking it.
I'm gonna tag some plants and pull leaves Saturday and ship Monday.
Calling servitech tomorrow.
Thanks for sharing your info. I'll post mine here next week

AKmark · July 6, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Good info.
I hear u on the leaf removal.
I've been dragging my feet on taking my first sample, because I worry about getting a composite sample.
If I had 100 or more of the same variety, no big deal.
My concern with my set up, is that every variety looks slightly different. And then different plants of the same variety look a little different. So I wonder how I can really get enough leaves to make a composite sample without stripping all of one variety?
Or maybe that doesn't matter so much because they are all getting the same feed. But are they all uptaking the same elements?
I'm gonna stop overthinking it.
I'm gonna tag some plants and pull leaves Saturday and ship Monday.
Calling servitech tomorrow.
Thanks for sharing your info. I'll post mine here next week

For a Servitech sample you will need 12 random leaves that represent your overall plants the best, they need to be the youngest mature leaves too. I got my results in 3 days. They have great customer service too.
Good luck

Nematode · July 7, 2017

Sooo got an "updated" report from my lab. They were having N reading problems over the weekend, and said mine is now normal, which based on what they were being fed is not the most likely result.
Lost confidence in them, will try another next time. Nice of them to get back, but 2 different results from 1 test = no confidence.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

June 29, 2017	#137
Nematode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: massachusetts Posts: 1,710	Samples should be at Spectrum Analytics in Ohio tomorrow. They say I should have results Monday. EC = 1.9 PH = 6.2 I'll let it run there for a while. Thanks for the input all.

June 30, 2017	#140
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	So looking at the chemgro page: https://hydro-gardens.com/product/to...box-4-18-38x5/ I see they have 2 stages, up to 4th cluster and after, quite simple. What I don't understand is how you adjust the EC. They say add this and this amount of that, adjust pH. How do you adjust the EC if the amounts are fixed? And why does decreasing the EC lead to less nutrients absorbed? I thought the amount is more or less the same as long as it's not under what the plants would want, and it's just the amount of water that differs.

June 30, 2017	#141
Nematode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: massachusetts Posts: 1,710	Zip, If you are using concentrate tanks, EC is adjusted by varying the amount of concentrate injected into the feed water to make the nutrient solution. Their recipe is a starting point to achieve that goal. I start at 100:1, and adjust injection ratio to get desired EC. EC is a measure of fertilizer strength. It can be too strong or too weak, just like soil conditions, and the plants respond accordingly. I understand this concept, but have had some difficulty with effective implementation.

June 30, 2017	#142
Nematode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: massachusetts Posts: 1,710	Ok so back to basics. Using chem gro mature heirloom formula for 100gal. My source has little to no calcium so I added the CaCl to the calcium tank. Ec came out at 2.0 minus source, right on the recommended value. Ph 6.2. Will irrigate at double rate to flush. Will let them ride on this formula. It is MUCH less N than I was running, that may have inhibited the fruit set. Well that along with the herbicide, but that's another issue. Guess I jacked Marks awesome thread and turned it into Nematodes screw up thread. Sorry.

July 5, 2017	#143
Nematode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: massachusetts Posts: 1,710	Tissue analysis back N high K borderline low Ca low Copper high Zinc borderline low. S high, likely cause is high N. The changes made already will mostly address these levels. Copper was sprayed a week before the sample, but the feed is inexplicably high in copper as.well. Plants are looking better already. Went through a "classic high N" phase of new leaves looking like a fist on top of the plant. New growth is still pretty distorted, not normal but getting better. Sungold is faring best, leaves are opening flat and wide as opposed to laying along the stem. Potato leaf types still having trouble. EC 1.9 with source zeroed out Ph 6.1. Minor iron def showing on new growth, will leave settings alone for now.

July 5, 2017	#144
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Interesting, Zinc is considered along with Boron important for flower setting, and on Copper sprays it does say not to use during flowering (although I can't find any research regarding soil copper inhibiting flowers).

July 5, 2017	#145
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	It is nice to see a group of growers using the support that is in place to help make us successful. Since I started using these tools, I have found improvements in so many areas, production, overall plant vigor, less waste with 2nd grade fruit, and taste of the fruit is tops. Keep sharing your methods, results good or bad, anything concerning plant management.

July 6, 2017	#146
PureHarvest Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Mid-Atlantic right on the line of Zone 7a and 7b Posts: 1,369	Nematode, how did you do the actual sampling? Did multiple varieties go into 1 sample? How many plants comprised one sample?

July 6, 2017	#148
PureHarvest Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Mid-Atlantic right on the line of Zone 7a and 7b Posts: 1,369	Good info. I hear u on the leaf removal. I've been dragging my feet on taking my first sample, because I worry about getting a composite sample. If I had 100 or more of the same variety, no big deal. My concern with my set up, is that every variety looks slightly different. And then different plants of the same variety look a little different. So I wonder how I can really get enough leaves to make a composite sample without stripping all of one variety? Or maybe that doesn't matter so much because they are all getting the same feed. But are they all uptaking the same elements? I'm gonna stop overthinking it. I'm gonna tag some plants and pull leaves Saturday and ship Monday. Calling servitech tomorrow. Thanks for sharing your info. I'll post mine here next week

July 7, 2017	#150
Nematode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: massachusetts Posts: 1,710	Sooo got an "updated" report from my lab. They were having N reading problems over the weekend, and said mine is now normal, which based on what they were being fed is not the most likely result. Lost confidence in them, will try another next time. Nice of them to get back, but 2 different results from 1 test = no confidence.